Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi im new to dart frogs can u please tell me wat some beginner frogs are? and wat tank to get n stuff?

thanx
jjd

Well, the best beginner frogs would be tinctorius species, auratus species, and leucomelas. Tinctorius do best in pairs as females fight and eat each other's eggs. I don't know very much about auratus, however. And leucomelas do well in groups. Personally, I would say the best beginner frogs are leucomelas, the bumblebee dart frogs. The size of the group depends on the size of the tank. I think it's like 1 frog for every 10 gallons or something. Right now I'm working on setting up a 29 gallon tank for leucs. But before you can think about frogs, you've got a lot of work to do to set up a tank. I'll go from the ground up. A simple substrate should be at least two layers. The bottom should be aquarium gravel, the top should be either coconut fiber or sphagum (Not sure about spelling). The gravel is needed for drainage. You should have a few hiding places, like cocohuts used for hermit crabs. You also need at least oe water bowl, with a few leaves around in case the frogs fall in. You'll also need plenty of driftwood, situated so the peices are at angles that will let the frogs climb if they want to. I know leucs like to climb a lot, but I don't really know much about the habits of the other two. Also, you will need a few plants, like bromeliads. I recommend bromeliad plants basically because they're cheap and easy to care for. The light should be a fluorescent freshwater aquarium light, which should be good enough for the plants and the frogs. They need to be kept basically around room temperature, around the mid-70's. They need to be misted down with a spray bottle at least once a day, and if you want, you can cover the top of the tank with clear plastic wrap to keep in humidity. A few websites you can check out for supplies and info are blackjungle.com and pumilio.com. Now, I am by no means "experienced". I have not even kept any frogs yet. If I have given you any incorrect advice, then hopefully someone will correct me. Good luck.

-Ty

As Ty says, the set up comes first, and he's correct that the temperatures for darts should range between 65 at night and no higher than 80 during the day, and the humidity should be around 80% of above. A "living" vivarium as he described is the best set-up for darts, in which the wastes are recycled by living plants and mosses. Very little ventilation is needed, so a tight fitting hinged glass or acrylic lid works very well. Lighting can be a fluorescent hood with a bulb around the 5700 Kelvin range--the best range for terrestrial plants.

Darts are diurnal, meaning they are active during the day. since they are not baskers and glass filters out all UV light, their live food must be dusted with vitamins and calcium containing D3. Many of us use Rep-Cal (without phosphorus) and Herptivite either together or alternating.

Live food is essential, as they will no eat anything that is not moving. Probably the easiest to culture and feed is one of the flightless or wingless fruit fly varieties of Drosophila melanogaster, although they will also eat pin head crickets, some beetle larvae and small insects one might capture out doors if no pesticides are used in the vicinity.

Good beginner frogs that get along in groups without regard to sexing them are Dendrobates auratus, (several color morphs are sold), D. leucomelas--a relatively inexpensive beginner's favorite. D. galactonotus, (yellow, orange or red morphs)are rather expensive, but are great long-lived frogs. Phylobates terribilis, (mint green are most readily available) are bold and delightful. Although the general recommendation for space is 5 gallons per frog, this does vary with different species, so 10 gallons per animal is a safer bet.

Beginner frogs which are territorial and should be kept in either mated pairs or 1 female to 2 males, since it is the females who are the fighters, are the D. tinctorius group, which include many different color morphs at varying prices. D. azureus is actually a D. tinctorius color morph, but most people still refer to them as a separate species.

While a few of the tiny thumbnail frogs, such as D. imitator and D. intermedius are bold and actually easy to keep, their tiny size may be intimidating to a beginner, and they like a tall tank with lot of arial perches, especially ephiphytic bromeliads.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

D. auratus blue, auratus Ancon Hill, galactonotus orange, galactonotus yellow, fantasticus, reticulatus, imitator, castaneoticus, azureus, pumilio Bastimentos. P. lugubris, vittatus, terribilis mint green, terribilis orange.

i was thinking about buying an arcrilic cage from glass cages.com most likly the 40 gallon. so it would be ok if i housed 4 Dendrobates auratus of diferent morphs in this cage ?

thanx

jjd

Well, that's plenty space, but I'm not sure about the different color morphs, I don't have any experience with that...Patty will, I'm sure.

You COULD but its frowned upon. If you were to mix these species you would have to flush eggs everytime you found them. Even then they might hide eggs from you and you would find a hybrid froglet in your tank. You are then left with the lovely task of killing it =/. You aboslutley can not let any offspring from that tank enter the hobby. Even if it doesnt look like a hybrid it most likely still is. Hybrids are detremental to the hobby because we all try to keep the frogs as close to nature as possible. THe diffrent morphs are all seperated from each other in nature and thats how we try to keep it in captivity. Whether or not its legally documented that they are endagered animals darts are definitley endagered. At the current rate of deforestation there may be no more wild darts in the next 100 years. It would be a shame if in the future all the wild darts were gone and darts in the hobby were contaminated with hyrbid blood. There is alot of intrinsic value of the natural occuring morphs. So what an alternative could be setting up four 10 gallon tanks with diffrent morphs or diffrent frogs. That would be pretty cool,you could line them up side by side if you wanted also.

Hey! It wasn't Patty! O_o weird. But either way, I agree, we don't need hybrids.

I managed to button my lip so someone else could express a view. Johnnymo has expressed what is the consensus among those of us concerned with over-all conservation. While there are no laws against it and what you do is your own choice, we try to influence those choices.

Since so few people mix even color morphs, there isn't a lot of data on how they fare together, so how they would potentially get along is mostly guess work from experience with individual morphs. By reputation the green and black auratus are relatively bold, while in my own experience, the blue and black are almost pathologically shy and hide most of the time, even without bolder frogs to intimidate them. The Kahlua and cream are said to be shy, while Ancon Hill are relatively bold, etc. So even the different color populations of the same species MAY not fare well together.

A very large part of the charm of dart frogs, especially those that get along well in groups, is watching their interactions and the courtship/breeding activities. To me, this has become even more interesting than their jewel-like colors.

Here are 3 female D. auratus blue morphs in a slapping contest, some D. galactonotus "fishing" and two imitator females in an argument over who gets to feed the tadpole. (I'm never sure if the order of the photos will come up right.)

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

D. auratus blue, auratus Ancon Hill, galactonotus orange, galactonotus yellow, fantasticus, reticulatus, imitator, castaneoticus, azureus, pumilio Bastimentos. P. lugubris, vittatus, terribilis mint green, terribilis orange.

so i can keep three blues and im alright?

You could easily keep 5 or 6 in a 40 gallon vivarium, and have a pretty good chance for getting both males and females. Just a hint, in case your choice of auratus proves shy--They appear to feel more secure in a rather heavily planted tank, and you're likely to see more of them than you may with more sparse cover.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

D. auratus blue, auratus Ancon Hill, galactonotus orange, galactonotus yellow, fantasticus, reticulatus, imitator, castaneoticus, azureus, pumilio Bastimentos. P. lugubris, vittatus, terribilis mint green, terribilis orange.

I have to agree with patty. The interaction and breeding behavior that goes on between frogs is alot more interesting/rewarding that a bunch of diffrent colors in a tank. Its very cool to watch a tadpole hitching a ride on the back of a parent and having something that has been going on for ages and ages in the rainforest right in your living room! A group of 5-6 blue and black auratus are sure to breed a bunch for you in a nicely planted tank. You could even sell offspring for some extra cash(that will most likely go into setting up another vivarium haha).