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Newb says Hi! - ? on coluber mormon

4_Greenbean Sep 17, 2007 12:57 PM

Hi to all, glad to join your community! I apologize for the length of my post - I'll try to limit myself to information that may be important background.

My daughter (now 8) has been wanting a snake for about a year. She didn't want something from the store but really wanted one of the local garters off of our property. Instead we've ended up with a Western Yellow Bellied Racer!

I'm looking for thoughts and advice. Soo many questions, so little knowledge (me that is!

A brief history of Greenbean. I took the snake (now named Greenbean) away from one of our cats. 'Bean is an adult, maybe as long as 36" but definitely over 30". When rescued he has a cut on his back about 1" south of his head, another cut on his side maybe 3" or so north of his cloaca (sic). The worst wound was a crushing wound with punctures on both sides maybe 1/3 of the way back from the head. His gender is assumed from the length of the tail and what I think are the 'hooks' that show about where his cloaca is.

We treated the 2 cuts with triple anti-biotic (Neosporen) and they both seemed to scab over well. The one behind the head is raised up, but appears to just be a really large scab and does not seem to be infected or causing any discomfort. The puncture/crushing wounds on the side were left pretty much alone. I warned my daughter that Greenbean may not live. The skin on the right side would even puff up when he breathed deeply, but there was never any blood from the nostrils or bleeding from the punctures.

Well, 'Bean has lived. He has been with us about a month. He handles well for me and though my daughter likes being around, talking to him, stroking him and having him pass over her, she is not ready to handle him alone.

He passed on pinkies (not enough movement?) but has eaten maybe 3 dozen crickets and two hopper mice. He is not at all shy of eating with an audience. I know now from reading posts by 53kw and Royreptile that 'Bean is too big for his home. He is currently in a 10 gal. on ash with a den (looks kinda like one of those dog igloo things), a full spectrum light and a heating pad. He is curious and spends a fair amount of time out of the igloo watching things around him.

NOW the questions and plea for advice (finally they all sigh..)

It has been about twelve days since the last mouse and crickets. Bean has lost some of the shine that he has always had. He seems to handle the same but he passed on a hopper and crickets this past Saturday. He has defecated since the last feeding.

I think maybe the mouse could have been too large, and I'll probably pick up a smaller one on the way home today. He did strike at it but not with the enthusiasm of prior attacks. He was not in the least interested in the crickets. I took him out and my wife and daughter cleared all out of the tanks and put in new clean ash. He was out and active after until burrowing in for the evening.

Could he be getting ready to shed? Do they loose appetite and loose their sheen before shedding? Is there any change that we should make in his environs or handling if he is ready for a shed?

Though he seems healthy from his activity level and willingness to be handled, could he be succumbing to his earlier wounds? Even the crushing and puncture wounds seem to have healed well and there is no sign of the lung puncture anymore as the skin does not puff up at any time.

What about brumation? Could he be ready to brumate? Seems a little early to me, but I really don't know!

Lastly, does it matter that he was taken into captivity as an adult? Could he be wasting from his captivity? I thought all was well when he took the hoppers and passed waste, not once but twice. Should we be looking for a good place to release now that the wounds have pretty much healed?

Anyway, thanks to all for the information that you have given me already in the archives. Thanks again to all who reply to this long winded plea for advice!

For Greenbean,
Tom

Replies (7)

Sighthunter Sep 17, 2007 09:06 PM

Loss of apatite has two reasons from a biological standpoint. First is time of year if their biological clock says time to hibernate then they quit eating since they will cool down and will be unable to digest food, they need to clear out their system cool temps in a house will have the same effect.

Breeding, males will quit eating around the time of year they breed usually spring or fall. This is convenient since they can be cannibalistic and males are usually larger. There are adult snakes that can quit eating for over a year without any ill effects.
-----
"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Royreptile Sep 17, 2007 09:16 PM

Excellent to hear of your new acquisition!
Coluber mormon, like all snakes, tends to become a duller color before shedding. This is because of a fluid which runs between the old skin and the new, which acts as a moisturizer and allows the snake to shed without incident. During this period, snakes will become duller and often their eyes turn blue, activity levels drop and they generally refuse food. This is most likely what is occuring with Greenbean.

After snakes experience external trauma, such as lacerations and punctures, they will often shed their skin to help accelerate the healing process. In essence, they simply replace the old sking for a new one, and this helps heal external injuries. This would also seem to apply to Greenbean.

A ten gallon tank is probably small, but it is a great sign that the snake has accepted food without incident. I would recommend a larger cage. Perhaps, 24" by 24" by 24", or larger if you plan on keeping him. I highly recommend you do as racers are rewarding captives.

Also, I would recommend replacing the substrate with leaf litter (preferably oak), or ground coconut, or a mixture of the two as I have found this to work best. You could also provide branches for climbing if you so desire. Your temperatures are good.

Any more questions, feel free to ask here or at my e-mail below.

Good Luck!
-----
Roy Blodgett
Green Man Herpetoculture
royreptile@yahoo.com

1.1 Drymarchon corais
1.1 Pseustes sulphureus
1.1 Masticophis taeniatus taeniatus
0.0.1 Coluber mormon
1.1 Lampropeltis getula californiae (desert phase)
1.0 Boiga dendrophila dendrophila
1.1 Corytophanes cristatus
1.2 Varanus acanthurus brachyurus (Mt.Isa)
2.3 Pogona vitticeps (snow and red/gold)
1.0 Iguana iguana

“All men lie enveloped in whale-lines. All are born with halters round their necks; but it is only when caught in the swift, sudden turn of death, that mortals realize the silent, subtle, ever-present perils of life.”- Herman Melville

coluber Sep 19, 2007 12:50 PM

Hi Tom
Welcome to the forum...thats a great story!...I wish you all the best with Greenbean.Its a tricky one,I think you have been given expert advice there.
It could be a shedding about to happen or it could be the onset of winter behaviour..it may even be that he is still well nourished from the large mouse,(maybe a much larger food item than he normally catches).Hopefully the next week or so will give you an answer...keep us informed how you get on .

Good Luck Paul (in the U.K.)

4_Greenbean Sep 19, 2007 03:08 PM

Well, let's try this again...I started a reply yesterday but never finished it, just wrote another and when I went to post, my session had timed out!

Thanks Sighthunter, Royreptile and Coluber! I'm very appreciative for the thoughtful replies and help.

Greenbean was out yesterday when I got home and Becky and I spent some time handling him. He seemed to be normal, maybe not as energetic but otherwise health. I'll just have to wait and see. We took a couple of pics, I'll post them when I figure out how. The tools and tips link has the html for posting a link to the [img], I just have to find someplace to host them.

If he is preparing to shed, how long would you expect that process to take?

My wife has an iron stand that she wants me to move the cage to. I can put a 29" x 13" (730mm x 330mm)by as tall as I feel safe enclosure on it. Would this be large enough or would a better terrarium still be wider than the 13". If this will work I may just make one out of acrylic though I could also make it out of glass.

Tom

Royreptile Sep 19, 2007 06:11 PM

Those dimensions are fine for a single snake considering racers don't usually become too large. I would give two feet of vertical space and provide lots of climbing branches. Acrylic works well but scratches easily, so keep this in mind.

The shedding process, from the first sign of dullnes to the time of shedding, usually takes about one and a half to two weeks.

As for image hosting, I recommend www.photoucket.com. You can upload pictures from your computer to the site through "My Pictures". Sometimes resizing the photos is necessary. Once uploaded, take the "Direct Link" URL from below the desired photo and paste it into the "Image URL" section before posting.
-----
Roy Blodgett
Green Man Herpetoculture
royreptile@yahoo.com

1.1 Drymarchon corais
1.1 Pseustes sulphureus
1.1 Masticophis taeniatus taeniatus
0.0.1 Coluber mormon
1.1 Lampropeltis getula californiae (desert phase)
1.0 Boiga dendrophila dendrophila
1.1 Corytophanes cristatus
1.2 Varanus acanthurus brachyurus (Mt.Isa)
2.3 Pogona vitticeps (snow and red/gold)
1.0 Iguana iguana

“All men lie enveloped in whale-lines. All are born with halters round their necks; but it is only when caught in the swift, sudden turn of death, that mortals realize the silent, subtle, ever-present perils of life.”- Herman Melville

viborero Sep 20, 2007 08:58 AM

Snakes use shedding as a way to heal their skin. Since Greenbean has scabs and scratches, you can expect him to shed a little bit more in the beginning and slow down later on.

Congratulations on a fine acquisition and I'm glad you were able to save him!
-----
Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
0.1.0 Boa Constrictor
1.2.0 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.1.0 Hypo Everglades Rat Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Pacific Gopher Snake
2.1.0 Sonoran Gopher Snakes
0.1.0 Amel Sonoran Gopher Snake
1.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnakes
1.1.0 California Kingsnake
3.2.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican, Temecula, & Bagdad)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Western Hognoses
0.0.1 Lyre Snake
0.0.1 Glossy Snake
0.0.1 Shovelnose

LIZARDS
2.0.0 Bearded Dragons
1.0.0 African Fat-Tail Gecko
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.4.2 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.1 Chuckwalla
1.4.0 Banded Gecko
0.0.1 Gold Dust Day Gecko
1.1.3 Sandfish
2.0.0 Desert Iguanas

AMPHIBIANS
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Bubbling Kassina
0.0.1 White's Tree Frog
0.0.2 Gold Frogs
1.0.0 Fire Salamander

4_Greenbean Oct 04, 2007 12:23 AM

Well sort of a shed. Two questions at bottom.

Greenbean started shedding last week while I was out of town. My daughter spend a lot of time supplying me with detailed descriptions of the state of the shed one evening! The wound that was on his back looks amazingly better now and even the crushing and puncture wounds on his side are much less noticeable. The cut on his side down towards his tail still is a very large scab, but it is in the area that is not yet shed. I still need to get signed up with a site to host JPEGs, so I cannot post yet.

Unfortunately, the shed seems to be a little stuck now. I'd estimate that he is about 2/3 shed with very pretty and much brighter color from the tip of his nose back. Unfortunately, the last 1/3 or so is not yet shed. There are patches that are coming off but it's not coming off in the big sections as the first part.

A very helpful person at Turtle Bay Exploration Park down south of us in Redding suggested warm water baths. I have had Greenbean in low to mid 90* water a couple of times since then and the first time he did loose some more shed the next day on the piece of manzanita that I now have running diagonal in his enclosure.

(Turtle Bay side bar - We got to meet and touch a rubber boa. A very interesting little snake with tiny tiny eyes compared to the racers and coachwhips...clearly not a sight hunter. Weird texture body and hence the name.)

I have been reluctant to disturb him when he is curled up hidden in his hidey hole, preferring to handle and bathe him when I find him already out. Should I not be so timid about disturbing his 'private time' and go in and get him to soak on a daily basis to help finish the shed? Or should I just leave him be and bath and handle when I find him out?

One other question, could I go ahead and offer him a fuzzy and see if he is interested in taking it or wait until the shed is 100%?

Thanks again for the information and fun reading (I have to start digging my underground shelter and get some chain mail and a taser so I can think about getting a coachwhip!)

Tom

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