Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,
I keep snakes and turtles mainly but,
we have been seeing a lot of tiger salamanders crossing the road lately in here in Iowa, they breed in my uncles ponds and swamps, wondering if anyone knows of any records of captive breeding success? I would like to keep a couple in captivity and try to breed them if it's possible, if it is an impossibility then I might just keep one as a pet for awhile then let it go in the spring, and let the rest keep on doing their thing in the wild.
Any replies would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
Jeff

>>Hi all,
>>I keep snakes and turtles mainly but,
>>we have been seeing a lot of tiger salamanders crossing the road lately in here in Iowa, they breed in my uncles ponds and swamps, wondering if anyone knows of any records of captive breeding success? I would like to keep a couple in captivity and try to breed them if it's possible, if it is an impossibility then I might just keep one as a pet for awhile then let it go in the spring, and let the rest keep on doing their thing in the wild.
>>Any replies would be greatly appreciated
>>Thanks
>>Jeff

Eastern tigers are a protected species. I doubt it's legal to keep them in any state without a scientific collector's permit.
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PHWyvern

Is that a federal protection, because I checked with our state law and they are not listed as protected in Iowa, correct me if I am wrong. Why are tiger salamanders for sale all the time if that is the case?

It is up to the individual states to define what is required or not, and what the status of the animal is.

>>Is that a federal protection, because I checked with our state law and they are not listed as protected in Iowa, correct me if I am wrong. Why are tiger salamanders for sale all the time if that is the case?

What is for sale in the pet trade is rarely eastern tigers (Ambystoma tigrinum). Usually what you see for sale is the barred salamander (Ambystoma mavortium) or the neonate Axolotl (very rarely do they ever progress to the adult land phase). Occasionally you may still see California Tigers for sale, but I think they are becoming more restricted now. Eastern tigers are pretty much threatened or outright endangered in most states they are native to and protected in some fashion.
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PHWyvern

I cant find anytging of them being protected in Iowa. I looked high and dry.

Tigers do not breed in captivity. There is only one unconfirmed report out of Japan that indicated that captive breeding had been accomplished.

Do not free a salamander that you have maintained in captivity. Doing so can risk the wild population by introducing pathogens from a captive fed/held salamander.

Here in MN I know they are not protected. The MN DNR classifies them as having a stable populations and in many areas they are abundant. I am curious as to where the other responders to this post are from and why they call them endangered. I have even seen albino larva. I have found tigers on trips to IA and would think they are the same there. The Bell Museum of Natural History (Minneapolis) has a couple in captivity, one of which they have had for many years.

I have kept one for several years that I found (saved) at a construction site and recently added another that I found under similar circumstances. I keep both in a 10 gal tank that I have filled with bark reptile substrate and a waterbowl. I regularly mist the bark to keep it moist but not too wet. I feed them earthworms and occasionally other insects. Like most salamanders they are not handleable and spend most of their time hiding and digging around in their substrate. They have voracious appetites and sometimes come out in anticipation when I open the cage top to add more nightcrawlers.

Thanks for answering my questions. I wonder why they haven't been bred in captivity is it nearly impossible to simulate natural conditions to trigger, or is it that nobody has really tried? I see lots of other salamanders CBB.

Do you have any picts of your tiger salamander? Is it the eastern tiger that is native to your area in MN? I think that is what we have around here but I could be wrong.
Thanks
Jeff

I do not have pics at the moment if you give me a while I can get some, however if you go to this address: http://www.herpnet.net/Minnesota-Herpetology/salamanders/tiger_salamander.html There is a pic of one nearly identical to mine. If you go to the herpnet home, there is a lot of info on native IA herps as well

the endangered status of the Eastern tiger salamander is limited to certain US states, mainly on the east coast (i live in NY where they are only native to the long island area and are considered endangered by the NY DEC, you are required to apply and hold a permit for removing them from the wild.) there was an attempt several years ago to get the listed as endangered federally, but it was denied. MN and IA do not have eastern tigers on the protected list, but because they are native species, you may need a small game or fishing licnese to catch them in the wild legally, depending on state laws.

as for captive breeding, the report out of Japan was proven to be false. the salamander inquestion was wild caught and in captivity less than two months when it layed eggs. as i understand it, it was kept with two other females, no males. so it was most likly pregnant prior to being caught and shipped to Japan. in order for a animal to be considered capative bred, both parents must be kept in a controled situation where they mate, lay eggs and the eggs develope under the same circumstances. so having wild caughts kept in a container outside and getting offspring is not considered captive breeding at this time. the requirements of the tiger salamander for proper housing and numbers to attempt captive breeding is way beyond that of even most avid hobbyists. i keep four different species of tiger sals in 150 gal. aquariums set up as close to their natural enviroment as i can produce, and i have never even seen them mating, let alone had viable offspring.

for the person keeping two tiger sals ina 10 gal. tank, unless they are about 2" in length, you need to give them more space, at least a 20 gal. long. providing about 4" of soil, plants(perferbly live),moss for hiding and moisture, a large water dish they can submerge and swim in and wood or rock caves is necessary as a minimum for a responsible hobbyists.

as for taking from the wild. this is how a species becomes threatened or endangered. "I just took one", only works when you are the only one who does so, but you know that this is not true. if you like seeing them in the wild, then watch them, but do not touch. taking one for a year to watch it and have some fun can leave the animal sick with disease that it may spread to the wild population when released. if you find yourself unable to leave them alone and you catch one or more, you are now responsible for them for the rest of their lives, just as with any pet. if you take one, make sure you kow how to care for it properly and can do so for a long time. tiger sals are capable of living in captivity of 10 years or more.

Thanks for the information, I'm not sure what the requirements for captive breeding are that you refer to and what organization it is that is setting them as you didn't state that.
I don't think that harvesting for pets is a tiger salamaders biggest treat,(or most animals for that matter) by a longshot, human developement of their habitat, running them over with cars on new roads thru their habitat, and of course water polution are ginourmously more threatening, and the only real solution to that is for humans to stop having so many damn babies and stop bulldozing the country-side to make way for PHD's and MD's half-million dollar plus houses, so I'm not going to loose any sleep over taking a couple in as pets and giving them a spoiled free from preditors lifestyle.

I agree with boxienuts. I think that (wealthy?) suburban folks lifestyles are far more destuctive to herp populations than collecting. The two tigers that I am taking care of came from a construction area turning into over fertilized lawns and golf courses (green deserts) that used to be an open field. I have no doubt that both of them would have been dead within hours had I not taken them home.

The ones I kept I have used in educational demonstrations, but I enjoy taking care of and observing them. I regularly get asked by people who find tigers in their window wells what to do with them. I advise them to let them go in a more sutable location.

The 10gal tank has worked out well for the one as he has been quite healthy for some time. (When I found him his tail had just been cut off by a skid loader and it has since grown back too.) Now that there are two they will be moving into something larger.I am providing mine with a "spoiled, predator free lifestyle" and not releasing them. However, I am always curious where the folks who say that it is harmful to keep a herp for a while and release it later is so harmful got their info from. (I know that in many states keeping native herps is illegal or requires a license too.) I have met several people who keep and later release native herps. One was a biologist who did a lot of native herps educational programs with nature centers and the DNR. He would collect a variety of herps to use in his programs and then release them later before fall. He saw no harm in it, but didn't encourage others to do the same. I am not saying that the folks who say this is bad and spreads disease are wrong, but I would really like to find more out about the research on this as I have heard both sides.

Just for clarification I have 10yrs of college and work in public health so I didn't mean to point any fingers, hope I didn't offend anyone, that wasn't my point.

I have to say I agree with boxienuts. Taking one or two tigers from the wild isn't going to cause them to go extinct. Although tiger salamanders ARE being taken in large numbers every year in the midwest to be used for fishing bait (I don't know about the rest of the U.S.). Nearly every bait shop I've been to has tanks full of anywhere from a dozen to literally thousands of tiger salamanders for as cheap as $0.50 each...

And as far as breeding tigers in a 150 gallon tank, I don't think that's even big enough if your goal is to breed them. If your goal is just to keep the animals healthy, I have known people that have kept as many as 4 tiger salamanders for many years in a 10 gallon aquarium (not that I agree with cramping that many animals in such a small space). The salamanders I had that bred for me were kept year round outside in 10' or larger horse tanks...

Also, I understand since I was unable to raise any of the babies I got several years ago that it wasn't considered a successful breeding, but the animals that laid the eggs that hatched into larvae had been in my care for at least two years prior to laying the eggs. They were not gravid wild caught females unless they just stored viable eggs for two years... All I did was keep all of the salamanders I had in my "pond" year round and feed them as much as they would eat and they eventually bred. I know tigers are generally considered to be terrestrial (and that is how I keep mine now) but I have caught them in farm ponds all year round minus the extreme winter and that was just because it was too cold for me to go look... just some food for thought.
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0.1.0 Colombian Red-tailed Boa (100% Het. for albino)
0.0.2 Western Hognose Snakes
0.2.1 Plains Garter Snakes
1.0.0 Red-sided Garter Snake
1.2.0 Barred Tiger Salamanders
0.0.1 Red-eared Slider
0.0.1 Common Snapping Turtle

You guys think what you want but when they cant find any evidence of why the animals dissapear leads some to think its not cause they are dead but cause they are taken from the wild.

Right... No one is saying to go collect tons of salamanders, we're just saying hobbyists keeping a couple wild caught salamanders are not the main cause for the depletion of salamander populations. But hey, it's cool to drive your SUV's, over consume, drive on all those nice roads that used to be salamander habitats (who cares if a few get crunched on the road along the way?), I could go on and on if you want... because those things have NOTHING to do with them vanishing... It's obviously the small number of hobbyists keeping small numbers of salamanders that's making them vanish... And just for the record, none of my salamanders were captured by me, I saved them from being impaled on a hook and left to die so some redneck could catch a huge fish... Sorry to offend anyone but I just think people should think about as many aspects of things before ridiculing someone else... In an ideal world we would all have captive bred tiger salamanders (which is what I THINK this thread was about??? exchanging ideas on how to breed these creatures so we can ultimately not HAVE to have wild caught animals... therefore attempting to preserve the animals in the long run???).
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0.1.0 Colombian Red-tailed Boa (100% Het. for albino)
0.0.2 Western Hognose Snakes
0.2.1 Plains Garter Snakes
1.0.0 Red-sided Garter Snake
1.2.0 Barred Tiger Salamanders
0.0.1 Red-eared Slider
0.0.1 Common Snapping Turtle

Yes that was what it was about, I used to breed african cichlids and some of them where exstinct in the wild (due to humans messing with their lake for commercial purposes) and captive breeding was the only reason they still exsist on this planet. That might be at this point the only hope for many amphibians (like it or not)

you won't be able to take from the wild someday when there isn't any wild left, everything except pigeons and rats is endangered or exstinct in New York City... why? is it because too many people there have wild caught pets or is it because they don't do so well burried under concrete? We kill 100,000plus deer every year in Iowa thru hunting not to mention how many are killed by cars, I personally shoot about 15 with my bow and arrow each year, I shot 5 opening day this year, and yet every year there are still tons of deer everywhere... why? HABITAT,HABITAT,HABITAT

tigers are still plentiful in the midwest- they thrive in river bottom habitat and occasionally show up in city sewers and basements. pollution, rather than over-collecting, would seem to pose the biggest threat.

If you want to see an example of where releasing animals has caused problems why don't you look at the tortoise populations in the sw...... I have no reservations about collecting. But if YOU catch it you KEEP it....
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-David Harrison-
.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Striped Anery Corn "V" or "5".....Has two names
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
.1 Ball Python "Cleopatra"
0.0.2 Crested Geckos "Vinnie" & "Cadence"

"Have you ever tried simply turning off the T.V., sitting down with your kids... and hitting them?"