Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am planning on building an outdoor year round habitat for tigers,marbleds and possibly spotteds and am looking for some helpful info.
I live in the NE USA and my winters average 32 degrees in jan but may occassionally drop into the teens or very occasionally the single digits.winters are wet.summers are dry mostly but humid and july is usually 80"s to 90"s occassionally over 100.tigers and marbleds are in the wild here but spotteds are only found about 100 mi away.Of course my specimens would be captive bred I"m just making the point the salamanders can take this climate.
Here are my plans.Any changes or modifications would be appreciated.I am trying to recreate a local swamp.
Our frost level is 12 to 18 inches in winter.I was going to dig a hole 4 ft deep by 3 ft across(circular or square.I was going to fill about 6 inches with gravel in bottom then about 12 inches with fine sugar sand like we have under our swamps and woods.then about 2 ft of peat moss and on top of that about 6 inches of spagnum moss on top of that.running to bottom would be pvec so i could check the standing water level and adjust it with the seasons.i was going to make this out of red brick and concrete and hopefully waterproof.I imagine this large of an enclosure would"nt need cleaning often.maybe yearly i would have to dig it out and redo it.i have well water and it's good.i could use that or get our equally good though acidic swamp water.i was going to mak a wire mesh lid to keep them from climbing out and the cats and birds from going in.my yard is shaded so sun shouldnt be a problem.
How do you think this setup would work?can i place marbleds and spotteds in with tigers or am I asking to lose them even if their well fed?Is their any posts already on this subject?I haven't found any and wouldnt want you to have to rehash something thats already been beat to death.
Thanks for any help.
Al

in terms of species mixture all that comes to mind is that if you want them to breed then the marbled salamanders will certainly have an impact on how many of the others survive. Marbled Salamanders breed in the fall and lay their eggs in moist depressions or under moss/leaf cover at the edge of standing water. The eggs hatch pretty shortly after water levels rise above them and spend the winter under ice as larvae. Come spring when the other species are just laying their eggs, the marbled larvae have a fiesta... anyway, I'm sure they won't eat all of the eggs/young

Anyway, the main thing that came to mind is that somehow the salamanders need to have access to an underground habitat. In the wild they often use rodent/mole tunnels to get underground (hence, mole salamanders...). As long as they have a way of getting below the frost line they should be fine. It sounds like a really neat project... good luck and please post pictures. I've never heard of an enclosed man-made outdoor ambystoma habitat. From the sounds of it, that may be the ONLY way to breed tiger salamanders.

will i have to creat the tunnels to below frost level myself for them or will the be able to dig thru the peat and mud and make their own tunnels?do they hibernate in swamps below the water table or in mole holes in slighly moist soil?
thanks for the info.i want to find all this out before i start building.
Al

I just had to refresh my memory on this but from what I found, Tiger Salamanders can dig their own burrows but it is believed (though not proven) that Spotted and Marbled Salamanders do not. I don't know if what the tiger salamanders provide for burrows is sufficient to support the other species or not -- during the productive part of the year they could probably all do just fine under logs and rocks but winter is the problem, as you know. You could always toss in a shrew or two but that's kind of a long shot that probably wouldn't work immediately. I'm kind of thinking as I type here but you could either try to create natural-like tunnels yourself or you could start off with just Tigers and let them settle for a year or so then add the other species. By that point in time there may be an ample amount of tunnels made by rodents and Tiger Salamanders. Just curious, did you plan on enclosing the habitat or will it be open to the wild blue yonder? If it's enclosed then it should be worth noting that Spotted Salamanders have been reported as deep as about 4 feet so it would be pretty important to bury the perimeter pretty deep -- 4 feet may be overkill though.

I'm not a expert but I would imagine that breeding that many species of Moles would cost you a few acers of land. Just a large pond and some woods wont do it. They will compete, wont they?

sounds neat, are you going to line the sides with brick and pour concrete for the floor? just make sure they can't squeeze though and place and dig out or you probably won't see them again. I intend to use pond liner stapled to 2"x12" wood frame with some slack left in the liner to create a small pond, that way on the land part they can only dig down as deep as the soil I put on top of the liner, which I plan on only having a soil depth of 4-6" that way I can dig them up and put them in the basement for winter. The small pond will have a small filter box with a small low volume pump so as to not suck up eggs yet keep the water quality up along with periodic partial water changes, also the pond will be surrounded by small rocks to act as a buffer so the soil won't be tracked into the pond so much, and stocked with pond plants. Also this will be located on the northeast side of the house so it will only recieve a few hours of morning sun and stay cool. Anyway, good luck with your habitat I hope it works out for you and take lots of pictures to share.

and also as you stated a wire mesh top, and as I have with my box turtle enclosure...a 1/4" metal hardware mess cloth stapled to a 1"x4" wood top attached to the box frame with hinges for easy access. Best of luck, I hope your Tigers breed like rabbits, then you can make lots of money selling them on Kingsnake