Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Im about to get a 30-35 gallon tank and i was wondering how many tokay i could put in it. Also ive heard they are aggresive and was wondering about that with other takays and possibly frogs. I know someone who kept a gecko with her whites tree frogs and really liked the setup. Let me know if you have any opinions on that. thanks

You could fit like up to 1.4 in there. I would only keep like 1.3 but thats me. You can keep males with females and females with females but not males with males. And do not put frogs in there. They will become food. Yes you can do it with some geckos but not Tokays . .they eat anything that will fit in their mouths if they feel then can eat it.

Oh my gosh, I very much disagree. 35g is fine for raising juvies. But for adults I would never recommend anything below 65g. Really, really really.
How shall a 1 ft robust agile lizard spend 2-3 decades happily in a 35g? They survive that long, thats right. But its not apt

You are just a "know it all" and if anyone does it any different than you they are wrong. Mine are very happy in my cage and have never had one problem. I breed mine in a 29 gal with great results. There is no law saying you need a 1200gal cage for your tokays. Just because you do it does not mean its the rule. So stop trying to rip people apart because they have different ideas than you do. . .

Oohh...now getting rude man. Or should I say boy?
Sorry if you get it that way. I am a phd biologist by training, a herper since >35 yrs and I do keep tokays for longer than 20 years. I do know how their behaviour changes in dependence of tank size and I stick to the statement that 65g should be the least -which btw also is about the minimum size recommended by german government.
Tokays are hardy and do survie ages under nonappropriate conditions. ZThat much is true, no doubt.
That you do not want to give them the space they really need and that you do not want to hear that your way of tokay keeping might be considered non apt does not at all change facts.
Again: Its easy: Here you have a social 1 ft >200g agile lizard. There you have a 29g tank. That just does not match. Tokay are agile roamers which run and jump a lot. They also need temp gradients for thermoregulation and the chance to decide about both, intimacy and privacy from their mates.
Your being sarcastic does not change anything.
If you do ot believe me, you may check my reputation and ask europeean herpers about my competence or read my books.
Also check back at the DGHT, Europes largest society for herpetologists and herpetocultirist about tokays and me (Dr. Ingo Kober)
I absolutely stick to all what I said: The fact that tokays survie and even breedn in the tiniest tanks does not give us the right to withdraw from them the space they need to show natural behaviour.
Herps are not stamps and should not be collected, but allowed to live the most natural live, we could offer.

Cheers

Ingo

I do not question your credibility. I have actually seen a book of yours for sale over here. Its just to me your telling us that our way of keeping and breeding these animals is totally wrong. If I had the time and money I would probably set up a 1200 gal cage for them as well. However this is not Germany. There is no laws telling us how we will and will not keep our animals. I do agree that this big gecko needs a lot of room, there is no argument there from anyone that I can think of. The argument is that we're all wrong because we dont keep our animals in 65 gal tanks or bigger. OK you have keep Tokays for longer than 20 years, does that make your word carved in stone on the care for them? Now I'm not wanting to start a fight or anything. I'm just saying you can not tell everyone that there way is wrong unless its the German way. From talking to people you have good animals and knowledge but there are other ways to do things that how you do. I dont know very many people that would allow baby Tokays to be lunch for other animals. But I'm not ripping you apart because of it.

Sorry some how it got put up before I could put that I dont rip you for how you care for your animals because its how you do it. Like I said I dont want to start anything, you just shouldnt tell everyone they are doing it wrong when things you do can be called in to question itself.

Blake

Hi Blake, do not forget: Its true that I have a tokay trio in a 1200g. But of course I do not recomment this as the sole solution.
I only stick toghtly to the recommendation to use 65g and up ant nothign smaller than adults for the arguments already given.
I see, even in this forum I am not the only one. And independent from nationality and regulations. We are talking about the same animals.

So far, I guess everything is said.

Sorry for upsetting you, but I really felt a necessity to comment on 29g and the like

Ingo

True that Ingo! I've seen plenty of reptiles that can be kept and reproduce in all to small of enclosures. It's our job as their captives to provide them with as much opportunity to simulate thier wild environment as much as possible.
I have to see some pics of a 1200g tokay enclosure!
Nate

I do have a tokay pair in a 105 g and do raise the offspring in relatively small enclosures. The 1200g is a community (yes, works since decades for me -even though the enclosure was renewed )Originally the tokays were introduced into this tank to get rid of excessively multiplying feeder roaches. But now they share their habitat with basiliks and others since a long time.

Heres your pic:

wow thats incredable!
While I tend to believe communale tanks to not work out for most, I have heard of several that have been doing it for years. The Tokays being nocturnal and having plenty of hides durring the day, The basilisk being diurnal and having plenty of hides durring the night. Not to mention the basilisk don't seem like prey to the tokays and I'd assume they'de rather run then fight a large basilisk and vise versa. I could see how these species can cohabitate as I'm sure they've found a way to do it in the wild.
Nate

well put. I can remember a time when you could not really get Tokays to breed without a "room". As to the small tank for Tokay people all I have to say is "Humans will live in a 6x8 prison cell also for their active life- probally live healthier than outside, probally live longer than outside but what about happier??????
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>>You could fit like up to 1.4 in there. I would only keep like 1.3 but thats me. You can keep males with females and females with females but not males with males. And do not put frogs in there. They will become food. Yes you can do it with some geckos but not Tokays . .they eat anything that will fit in their mouths if they feel then can eat it.

Could you imagine putting cute little critters in a cage full of Monster Tokays......

Not good!

Kevin
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No way should you put 1.4 tokays in a 35 gallon. I have a pair in a 100ish gallon case and they use every inch of it. I would almost not recomend keeping more than pairs together females can and will fight. Sure you might get lucky and have a compatible trio but for the most part that is unlikely. As for anything other than tokays I keep cochroaches with my tokays for about 10 minutes at a time they don't seem to do to well. I figure anything else would fair the same.
Nate
Kevin your killing me with those tokays of yours.
Oh and while you can tame down a tokay you have to start with fresh hatchlings and handle them daily. I have succesfully tamed down a wc but it involved alot of blood before he realized biting me doesn't do anygood.

I know people that keep 1.3 in 18x18x24 exo with out any problem. He asked how many could keep. And could easily keep that in there. I keep my pair in a 24x18x24 exo.

I personally think they need more room. Tokays are obviously pretty indestructable and can handle alot but why make them? I've seen Tokays from smaller enclosures and they always look very "healthy". I personaly see mine hucking all over the enclosure every night. Also I'm pretty sure She was refering to a 35 long and thats no good.
Nate

OK.. I agree a 35 long is not good unless for babys and juvies. I thought she was talkin about a tall tank.

Sorry blake, you should really stop that.
If you are asked, how much space you need, to keep chickens, you would certaily answer, a square feet, because thatts about what they have in egg production facilities.

I think, the question is not, to check out the minimum requirements to keep tokays alive and breeding, but to take apt care of them.

With respect to tha, I repeat: A 65g tall may house a pair. But its the absoute minimum and I personnally would never go smaller than 100g.

Now star tbeing rude, because you do not want to hear that.

But we have had that often enough.

Ingo