Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey folks,

I'm a long time herp keeper and I'm looking to break into the world of muds and musks.
First off, do any of you have suggestions for hard literature on the captive care of these turtles? Also, the breeds I'm looking to ultimately keep are Common Musks, Razorback Musks, Loggerhead or Stripeneck musks, and Three Lined Muds. I have a 150 gallon tank that I plan on using, which seemed like enough floor space, but do you foresee any problems housing these species together? Do you have any suggestions for the best manufactured dry diet to use? I've used ZooMed's for painteds before which seemed to work well, but is anything else better for these species? And, finally, can you point me towards any reputable breeders for these species?

Thanks a lot and I appreciate any answers to any parts of this post,

Pete

That's a big tank! I think they would do OK together but if it was me I would start out with smaller specimens. The muds are a little more terrestrial than the musks so you would need to have alot of sticks or wood where they can get up to the surface easily.
You would need some really good filtration and I'm sure others would set you straight on that. I have a few musks in a 40 gal and they get that pretty dirty even with two fluval underwater filters, but a 40 is alot smaller than a 150.
Good Luck

Personally, from an animal welfare perspective, I would recommend against keeping so many closely related animals together. They may, and ultimately will in many cases, stress each other out. These are pretty aggressive turtles and they may or may not lose toes due to fighting or being mobbed. Even if they don't fight, they may have too high stress levels due to the presence of others. My theory is based in part on personal behavioral observations, and in part from the observation that friends' Kinosternids that were being kept together produced much less eggs than mine (being kept singly) -- I expect egg laying in adults to be a good welfare parameter.

Hybrids can come about if you put sternotherus of different species together. The odoratus & carinatus may need deeper water then the muds. Mainly if you keep same sex(females) individuals & visual barriers then all should be fine in that size tank. Just make sure you have plenty of places they can climb to the surface & keep from getting wedged in places. I have 2.3 carinatus in a 75gal. tank. Also 1.1 odoratus & a pelomedusa in a 55. I have 1.2 muds in a 55 gal rubbermaid. You should be fine with up to 7 individuals. If you don't want to breed then get females. Males have huge bulges in their tail base. females are short streamlined tails

Thanks for the info! What do you feed your musks? Do you use a feeding tank? Do you feed individually or the groups as a whole? Sorry for all the questions

Pete

Feed them in seperate containers if you can catch them without destroying the decorations. I would avoid more then 2 males.

If you want to have a true mixed species tank, be sure to start it with plenty of guppies, catfish, and plecos. The catfish and plecos will help to clean up after the turtles, and the guppies should be a self-sustaining food source. As far as food... variety, variety, variety! Quite frankly, there aren't that many turtle diets, so supplement with fish food: frozen; freeze-dried; larger pellets (cichlid & pond).
If you start with babies, you might have to tone down filter strength, but increase in strength as they grow. I know all the literature says they like quiet bodies of water, but you have to balance the concerns of natural conditions with practicality. I strongly recommend an undergravel filter with several powerheads for supplemental circulation. Spend the extra money for large aquarium pebbles. Generic gravel from Lowe's or something similar will most likely lead to headaches with excess algae growth.
Any literatue written by David Kirkpatrick is excellent. Not only is he an expert in turtle care, but his own personal interest is in the mud/musk group. He has a book published by t.h.f., and several of his articles are posted on the web.
I wouldn't worry about multiple specimens of mixed species as long as you don't crowd them. There are a few breeders, but most are farmed and not usually available as hatchlings except in August and September. The turtles are very hardy, so unless you are looking for something very particular, I wouldn't worry too much about the reputation of the supplier.
My own personal recommendation is the Loggerhead Musk. It will probably cost 2-4 times as much as the other species you mentioned, but it is a magnificent beast! I liken it to a military tank with the head of a monitor lizard... needless to say, I have one and I really enjoy it. It is in 20L turtle tank, but I have never seen it bask. Though it is the only turtle in the tank, it has plenty of fish company.

I'm keeping three stinkpots, a stripeneck, and a loggerhead (not all in the same tank). They all feed readily on every kind of processed turtle pellet I've given them, nightcrawlers, and snails (be careful with snails, though, as there is a possibility of parasite transmission); the loggerhead eats small crayfish, and the stinkpots will take dead fish, but none of them seem interested in live fish.