Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello everybody, I recently captured a wild caught horney toad I have spent a great deal of time and $ on getting the right enviroment for him. I just recently recieved ants that I ordered and hes been starving for about a week now (his poop is white) well I have put about 30-40 ants in thismorning alone and hes gorging himself.. Is it ok for me to keep feeding him or should I hold back and give him no more then 20 a day until he is fully healthy again or let him gorge himself?

Also to give a brief description of my setup 20 gallon long (will be upgrading this tank soon to atleast a 50 gallon) I spray him daily with drinking water (not tap) he has calcium sand in the tank I have a 100 watt UVA spotlight and 2 26 watt 10.0 UVB Compact Flouresants its approx 95-100 on the hot side and 79-83 on the cool side. They are setup on automatic timers 12 hour cycle. Relative humidity hovers at around 30. I have 2 water dishes for soaking I change daily.

I found this guy on a job site and if I didnt take him he was going to die. I think I am doing a good job for him I try not to stress him I have kept exotic reptiles in the past and am familiar with their quarks for the most part. Please let me know any critisism or any suggestions on how I can give this guy a happy life.

Hey Ram-please check www.phrynosma.com and get as much information as you can there. Horned lizards that are healthy can eat a 100 or even more at a setting. These lizards for the most part have went down for the winter, if he is healthy he will slow down and go down for the winter. YOu can also feed him some crickets and other small fair, small crickets, wax, worms, small king mealworms. But most of his faire should be ants, we don't know what specie, but even if you get him/her a mate, a 40 gallon breeder cage shuold be totally adequate.
Will you post a picture or two of your lizard, it would be intersting since your new, to just see what kind of meat he has on his bones. Always good to know what your working with. Preferably a close in picture of the vent that is clear, we may be able to tell what sex it is, and a good picture looking down from the top, especially his legs included in the picture so we can see his overall health. I would only keep one water dish in there. Two are unecessary. Also I would recommend a mercury vapor bulb or a 10.0 flourescent. The compact flourescents aren't worth a nickle, the UVB does not go down into the cage to make any significant help. Where as a zoomed 10.0 flourescent will work great, I would use a F20T12 bulb for that cage (made for a 24" fixture)but the Mercury vapor bulb would be your best bet.. Sounds like what you posted your trying to do the right thing. Depending on the type of specie you may want to increase the ambient air temps some and and the cool side. Bringing a HL home at this time of the year is difficult, it suprises me this guy wasn't already hibernating? Let us know by posting a picture and we could probably make some more contrete sugesstions.Cheers!! I am sure others may post as well, but do get us pictures, we don't know what specie, also what state a general vicinity (city) and also what the weather is like about now......
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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

I think I messed him up a little since the I captured the wrong ants and he hasnt been fed for over a week and 3 days. I will post a picture here in a day or 2 I will probably keep the compact flash because I spent over 100 on my lighting setup, I think because he was getting pretty sick he was really thin and I have fed him about 55 ants today alone and hes already LOOKING alot better compared to what he was doing I appreciate the help and how fast did you say I can go through 500 ants becasue that is what I ordered and if that is the case I will order 1000 next time THANK YOU again and I will get the pictures up for you...

ohhh and to reply about the hybernating he was found in a spoil pile from a piece of heavy equipment, so it wouldnt surprise me if he WAS hybernating and go scooped up its probably a miracle that hes even alive

O.K. What state and what city? THis may help us to determine the specie or possible specie. Don't forget you can go down to a local pet shop or reptile shop and buy some 3/8" crickets and feed him some of those, while most horned lizards almost all make ants their main source food entree, certianly they also eat other insects. Just don't try and feed him large insects, small crickets and you can lightly dust them with reptie vitimins, lightly. If he hasn't ate and was somewhat sickly, have you actually seen himn drinK? If not you might try a eye dropper and put a drop on his nose and see if he will begin lipping up some of the water, and give him a little to help hydrate him.

ALso HL's respond to light, I am not just talking about heat but light. Many people use one bulb and have a hot side focused light but the cool side is almost dark. I have found by using a lower UVB like 100 watt and then putting 75 or so with in inches of that or in the middle works well and adds light to the cage, ultimately with our getting too hot or burning your lizard up, you need to try and duplicate bright light like one sees outside. Its hard to blance right but in a 40 gallon breeder tank I use a 100 watt MV bulb and then in the midle of the cage I use 75 watt home depot halogen bulb. THis seems to put out good overall light and works well in my opinion...... JUst be careful it doesn't get too hot, and don't forget you lizard is or should be going down for the winter, so I only passing this along for spring and beyond settings I use for a 40 gallon. MIne are already down except for one Regal I have that is not doing well and Iam still working with him and trying to fatten him up...... But I will be putting him down soon.....
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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

I am in Phoenix AZ and its been around 60-70 in the morning to 85-100 during the day here in Phoenix from my best guess I have a P Solare he looks like this http://www.phrynosoma.org/solare.html but with slightly different coloring (More Tan Colored)... and yeah I have seen him drink a few times when I have sprayed him hes lapped up the water from his head.. when they hybernate outside do I have to recreate the cold enviroment for him or will he know when its time and just do it? My lighting covers the whole tank I have the hood specifically made for my flouresants and for my spotlight. My spotlight is adjustable height wise I dropped that down a little bit I do think I will buy another smaller spot lamp because he is hanging out only on that one side.. I will send pics of enclosure and him today I probably will not get the underbelly of him until he gets fully better and not so stressed (I have been trying to let him do his own thing) and not stress him even more...

O.K.-right now it sounds like you cage set up is good, I wouldn't buy the other light now because this lizard indeed should be going down for the count. SOlare are pretty resiliant, so thats good, I think I am more intersted in seeing a picture right now than anything. If he is eating I might consider fedding him well for a week or tow then let him empty pout by not feeding him for a week and then let him go down. If you are at all concerned you can always wake him back up in February if necessary. It seems the females eat and put on a lot of fat, and all my males seem skinner than the females, but others may have had better experience than I. ALso, if yours is Solare, then indeed these are ant eaters and you should feed him ants. I would keep his ant intake about 70 percent of his diet at a minimium, don't be afreaid to feed him some occasional crickets (only 3/8 or smaller) and if you catch amolth or some other non evasive insect. Don't feed them grasshoppers from the wild as they carry or are known to carry parasites. SOunds like you have it in hand, do r4ad everything you can on HL's. THe gentleman that posted below (Fireside) has a rescue and has information on these as well, might read his posts as I think he has an online site as well. If he is eating then thats good, but if he was in a oile as you said, I am assuming he was trying to hibernate so, he should be good.....CHeers!
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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

Ok once I have him fattened kinda starve him for a week then let him go down? By letting him go down should I shutoff my spotlight and keep my flourecsents on too keep a little temperature in there? and what is the proccess of letting him hybernate I havent found any material on that particular subject... Also sorry I forgot my camera at work again so it will be tommorow once I have pictures for you... Another question I have about 1 inch of substrait throughout the cage should I double or even triple that so he can rest comfortably?

3 inches of sand is good so they can dig down, I would change the light bulb from a 100 watt to say a 60 watt or so, and shorten the day from 7:00 to 5:00 or so. The flourescents do not put out any heat. The temps can get down to 55 or 50 or so and thats fine. It is not good to hibernate your animal on a full stomach, you need to empty them out and to much food on the stomach can putrify and make them sick.......
I would recomend home depot play sand something that is cleaned and temped.
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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

ohhh and YAY hes pooping again and its brown not white its not as full as his first 3 in captivity but hes looking 10x healthier then he did just YESTERDAY so I am VERY happy I think I got those ants just in the nick of time.

generally ants go through the body rather fast, the white is urea (pee) and if the brown is nice and firm and the urea is not discolored to much then that sounds healthy. If it gets watery and runny or smelly you probably have a problem.....but that doesn't sound like the case.....
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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]