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meltz Nov 26, 2007 06:02 PM

Hey all, im fairly new to this and had a few questions. sorry if this gets long. just a few questions i had on my mind for awhile.

First off what is the best dart to buy if i want to keep at least 2 in the same tank and ones that are very outgoing,(active, bold, out during the daytime)

2. How often do they need to be fed?

3. if i set up a bunch of tanks ( i plan on dedicating a whole room to them little by little) is there some sort of misting machine i can buy to mist a few tanks at a time?

4. if they lay eggs, what kkind of setup do i need for the tads. like do i need some sort of special tanks for all the tads?

5. is there a good/best list of some of the plants and such i could use to creat the tanks?

6. if i do a false bottom tank. does the water that lays in the bottom of the false tank need to be drained at any point?

7. How long after i set a tank up do i have to waite to add the frogs?

i beleave thats all for now, sorry if its abit long, i just know you guys on here are full of info and the best place to come to ask questions =) im sure ill have pleanty more for the weeks to come =)

Replies (3)

Slaytonp Nov 26, 2007 08:22 PM

1. This also depends somewhat on how much you are willing to spend on a frog. Considering price, relative boldness and the ability to get along together no matter what the sex is, probably Dendrobates leucomelas tops the list. Phyllobates terribilis are delightfully bold, as well. While they are still somewhat expensive, my favorite of all of the larger bold frogs that get along in groups are the galactonotus, especially the orange morphs. Some people have reported that the red morphs are more shy and less "groupie," but I have no first hand experience with these, and their prices are pretty high. Smaller, and not quite as colorful over all are the different Epipedobates anthonyi morphs. I have some delightful "Pasaje" morph. If you can manage a mated pair, the azureus and tinctorius are both bold and colorful. While two males will get along, perhaps, usually females fight--Experiences with these seem to vary. Auratus are popular and do get along in groups, but some can be very shy--again experiences vary. A lot depends upon how your tank is set up and the age of the frogs. People usually report that the green and black morphs are relatively bold, while in my own experience with the blue morphs and Ancon Hill, the blues are finally showing themselves after having kept them for 8-10 years, and the juvenile Ancon Hills I have hide all of the time.

2. Froglets and juveniles are fed daily as much as they want to eat of the vitamin dusted fruit flies and spring tails. There seems to be a consensus that we tend to "overfeed" adults in captivity and they can become obese. I feed most of my adult darts every other day, and try to vary their diets occasionally with pinhead crickets, different little meal worms, and field plankton in season. (Field plankton is the stuff you can catch with an entomology type net--small gnats, leaf hoppers, spiderlings, etc.) I also collect pea aphids, cabbage aphids and aphids from fruit trees when available, which some frogs really like as if they were chocolate cake. But collecting needs to be done in pesticide free areas or you can run in to trouble with this. One needs to watch the frogs and feed less if they appear overly fat, and more if they become skinny. This is subjective and something they usually survive as you learn.

3. I mist by hand with a pump sprayer using distilled water. Depending upon the set-up with waterways, etc., some may need daily misting or more often and others perhaps none at all. I've tried a couple of the cheaper misting systems for individual tanks and found them lacking. This is something someone with more experience with using these needs to answer.

4. How you handle eggs depends upon the species, and most all breeders will have specific care sheets for raising each. The thumbnails such as imitator and intermedius will raise and feed their own tads if the set up is right for this. They may transport the tadpoles either to a water-filled axil of a bromeliad leaf, or many people offer them a film canister set at an angle. The obligate egg feeders almost must raise their own, as the tads will survive only on the infertile eggs the female lays. These include pumilio. Others may or may or may not transport the tads to a waterway to deposit them, but with those I mentioned such as leucomelas, galactonotus, auratus, etc., one usually removes the eggs after three or so days to make certain they are fertilized, and allows them to hatch out in a separate container. Here is where the techniques, the containers they use and the food they feed varies among almost everyone, with no two exactly alike. With first eggs, you are going to be experimenting, anyway--Often the first eggs of a pair may fail, even if they are fertile, or the tads won't hatch out properly. I don't know why, but failures at this point aren't always your fault. By the time you get to that point, you will have a lot of ideas and can invent some of your own.

5. My advice about plants is to use miniature tropicals, plant them when they are small and don't over-plant. Let them spread and come into their own, which they will do soon enough. Bromeliads that grow eiphytically on a back-ground or on a wood branch or log in the tank are almost a must for any dart species. For some they are a necessity, and for others, they are a joy to sit and soak in. In my opinion and experience, the smaller Neoregelia hybrids do the best job. Eschew voracious plants, which some, but not all ferns can turn out to be. Small vines such as Ficus pumila varieties, especially my favorite of all, quercifolia, Pellionia, Peperomia, etc. Many breeders and tropical plant dealers have "packages" for vivariums. Look on Black Jungle, Saurian, and a Google search including both "dart" and "vivariums or terrariums" will take you to a lot of sources. Selaginella species are almost always a good choice.

6. If the false bottom is a true false bottom meant to recirculate water over a waterway or drip wall, after the first few water changes as it cycles the tannins and foams, etc., you may only have to add water as it evaporates. With this type of set up, I usually only do changes until the water looks like I want it to, then only add later unless there are obvious problems. If by "false bottom," you actually mean a drainage area, then this is siphoned off regularly if and when the water builds up in it. There has always been some confusion among us about what "false bottom" implies.

7. Add the frogs when the tank is established enough so that you know all of the pumps and waterways are working and the plants are growing well. This is mostly so you don't have to make major changes with the frogs in the tank or have to remove them to do this.

I hope this helps, but don't take it as the last word. Others will chime in and give different experiences and suggestions. A lot of what you do depends upon your personal preferences regarding decoration and how you want things to look. If you follow the general humidity, temperature, feeding and vitamin supplement rules, plus some good light for your plants, most darts are very hardy fellows and will adapt to a lot of different set-ups. My God, am I long-winded!
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

Dendrobates: auratus blue, auratus Ancon Hill, tinctorius azureus, leucomelas. Phyllobates: vittatus, terribilis, lugubris. Epipedobates: anthonyi tricolor pasaje. Ranitomeya fantastica, imitator, reticulata. Adelphobates castaneoticus, galactonotus. Oophagia pumilio Bastimentos. (updated systematic nomenclature)

meltz Nov 27, 2007 02:13 PM

Thanks Patty, i will for sure take what you said in mind. Oh before i head out, what do you use to heat your Dart tank? Is it just the light for the plants that heats the tank for them? or do you use some other heater for them as well?

Slaytonp Nov 27, 2007 09:00 PM

No other heaters. I live in a cool climate, but try to keep the house temperatures above 65, and not less than 60 at night, which seems to work fine. I have more problems keeping some of the tanks cool in summer than heating them up, because I don't have air conditioning. Many of the frogs can actually tolerate rather lower night temperatures. (This is anecdotal, but a poster once told us that his auratus regularly get down into the upper 50's at night, and although they didn't move much until they warm up, they have tolerated this for years. Some of the smaller guys might be more particular, however.) One thing to consider is that both the substrate and water features will take up heat during the day and release it more slowly at night, so this actually moderates the changes. I also received my first pair of azureus in an overnight pack that felt extremely cold when I opened it, and the frogs were not moving at all. (I was too concerned with the frogs to measure the temperature of the insulated box, but would have guessed it at about 45 degrees just from the feel.) I thought they might be dead. I was nearly in a panic, but put them in the nursery tank and let them warm up. Gradually they warmed up, began moving, and within two hours, were eating like pigs. They had no further problems and are still going after three years. When I talked to the breeder about this, he reminded me that air cargo isn't heated--they are flying at 30,000 feet or so, and it's pretty cold up there. this is not something I would want to subject them to on a daily basis, however.

A word about the reptile heating mats for frogs: With the first few tanks I built I put them under the tank, and unless one has an open screen type rack, this is a bad mistake. There is no external or adjustable thermostat to control the temperatures, and apparently the internal ones aren't very reliable, can and do overheat. These mats actually scorched both one wood stand and another of a kitchen counter top material. I've tried a couple on the backs of the backgrounds of cork bark, etc., on the outside. This may warm the glass a bit, but is a waste of energy, because most of it is dispersed into the air. These are not safe to put inside under water or wet soil. I finally just unplugged or removed them all, and do quite well without them. There are, or at least used to be, grow mats that one could put right in the soil under cold frames outdoors to start early seedlings. I used to use them long ago in a quasi nursery business. They were reliable and had external thermostat controls. They were also expensive as hell, and I haven't seen them around for years. You don't want to use any kind of internal heat rock, etc. for frogs. They don't bask like reptiles.

These are just my own experiences--not gospel.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

Dendrobates: auratus blue, auratus Ancon Hill, tinctorius azureus, leucomelas. Phyllobates: vittatus, terribilis, lugubris. Epipedobates: anthonyi tricolor pasaje. Ranitomeya fantastica, imitator, reticulata. Adelphobates castaneoticus, galactonotus. Oophagia pumilio Bastimentos. (updated systematic nomenclature)

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