Reptile & Amphibian Forums

does anyone know what the difference's are between a 'red coachwhip' and a 'red phase western' ?

Partly as I have taken on some 'red' hatchlings, and I'm not sure which type they are. Plus I have currently 2 adult reds that are pure red ones.

In fact does anyone know any links or books that will help to find out what types of coachwhips come over here.

Mike

The Bartlett (author) field guide both western and eastern field guides are the best out there. To address your question there are seven subspecies of (Masticophis) coachwhip of which six are in the United States and (mentovarious) is from Mexico into Central and South America.

Red phase is used to describe certain western races that have a black morph although it could also describe an eastern coachwhip that was red, anotherwords (my word) the offspring would either be black or red, (and or) any other color and red.

Hope that helps but keep in mind some coachwhip snakes are brown and will turn red from diet. The red in the diet is from insects eaten either directly by the snake or by lizards or birds that the snake is feeding on.

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

They all look like this when born

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

To add on, I usually hear the term "red coachwhip" applied to the piceus, which are usually red banded with a black band around the back of their neck. "Red phase western" applies to the high reds found out in west texas (testaceus.)

Kevin

So these are likely to be red phase westerns.

Whereas these babies may be either red phase or the piceus, won't be able to tell until the get larger ?

Mike

So this could well be an eastern ?

And these two adults different western phases ?

I'm pretty sure the grey ones that I have are westerns.

How old do coachwhips have to be before they are ready to breed ?

Mike

They look nice and apear to be Masticophis flagellum testaceus (western coachwhip). Some look like they might need a few meals to fatten them up but nice color. The second group looks like western also.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

I second that. Definitely testaceus.

Kevin

Thanks for that, it is hard to find out which types we have over here as we never get any locality data with them.

Yes the reds are skinny, very skinny, but they are supposed to be feeding on hoppers ? Which sounds small to me, but I will try them at the weekend to see if they feed at all.

Hopefully we will have some more pictures at the weekend as Paul (coluber) is coming to collect some of the coachwhips.

Mike

P.S. Does anyone live close to Glades herp and also catch coachwhips ? As we need some eastern females (amongst others)

Kinda late for feeding as mine are hibernating now but you could keep um hot and feed um up.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Maybe this is just my experience, but my piceus seem to greatly prefer pinkies or hoppers to adult mice. My female actually regurges adult mice, so I just stick to pinkies or hoppers every few days. They can eat a lot

Kevin

No, you are definitely correct. When I had my piceus, he did not fare very well if fed large mice, or more than one small adult mouse at a time. He would almost invariably regurgitate. I fed him one small adult mouse a week, and that seemed to do the trick.
The whipsnake seems to do be the same way, though it will eat two or more rat pups at a time if given the opportunity. I would almost say that I prefer those over the mice too, and the snakes don't complain.

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Roy Blodgett
Green Man Herpetoculture
royreptile@yahoo.com

1.1 Drymarchon corais
1.1 Pseustes sulphureus
1.1 Masticophis taeniatus taeniatus
0.0.1 Coluber mormon
1.1 Lampropeltis getula californiae (desert phase)
1.0 Boiga dendrophila dendrophila
2.3 Pogona vitticeps (snow and red/gold)
1.0 Iguana iguana

“All men lie enveloped in whale-lines. All are born with halters round their necks; but it is only when caught in the swift, sudden turn of death, that mortals realize the silent, subtle, ever-present perils of life.”- Herman Melville

I know on the whole it is late for feeding but both reds are very skinny. Folds in the skin here and there, plus I have just offered them food and they have taken it straight away.

Also by all accounts the young hatchlings parents are both pure red in colour, so they must be red phase westerns.

Paul has just come across and picked up two 3 hatchlings, plus he is having one eastern adult and one red adult around xmas.

Handed him my old female today and she was starting to consider biting him so had to take her away, she is blind and when she can smell food she will just grab anything that is around. (usually herself, me, viv furnishings, etc).

Mike

Hi Everyone
Sorry to be a little quiet lately!...yes Mike (and Richard..his boss..lol!!)Have done great!!..importing some lovely coachwhips from contacts in the states.
At last I am the proud owner of baby coachwhips,reds and easterns.Mike and I are working together to learn more about this fabulous species and at last have some lovely subjects to work with over here in the U.K.
Continued thanks to you guys for your help and advice..please expect more plea's for help over the coming months..LOL!!

regards Paul