Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I posted this in Garter snakes, thought I'd place it here too.

I have an ecoterra 18x18x24 vivarium set up and I need help deciding what the best snake for the vivarium is. I'm very torn. I have snake experiance, but only larger boas and corns. Time for something small.

I *wanted* a Smooth Green Snake, even found someone in Canada that says he's got cb babies. However all I hear is HORROR stories and how I'd basically be dooming the snake to a slow captive death.

When it comes to Rough Green Snakes I hear: Greatest snakes ever! and Will DIE in a week, worst snake in captivity ever.

Sigh. Who to trust?

So I'm coming to all of you! Here is the set up:

False bottom four inches high with a pocket cut out for acess to the water (lined with slate and cork bark). The whole first layer is like a moist cave lined in cork bark, s. moss, and tree fern root. The second layer holds a drift wood waterfall/stream and a dry cave lined with repti-bark, the third false bottom also holds a dry cave. The top layer has a thick grape vine under a heat lamp. There is also a piece of drift wood suspended from the glass.

Temp: 70s down on the bottom, 80-85 on the top layer. UV lights, will have live moss and live plants.

So...who will be happiest in here? My favs: Rough Green Snake, Fl Blue Garter, Northwestern Garter, Blackneck Garter.

I want something that stays small and slim. I don't have to be able to handle the snake, but I do want to be able to observe him from time to time.

Any thoughts?

Here are some pics (not the best). Plants are coming tommorow, I plan to let them take root for at least a month before adding snake.

http://phoenix-cry.deviantart.com/art/Vivarium-VI-71673276

http://phoenix-cry.deviantart.com/art/Vivarium-VII-72062549

False bottom pic:

http://phoenix-cry.deviantart.com/art/Vivarium-II-71053634

I say go with some type of garter snake...
-----
Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.kingpinreptiles.com
^ Updated 11/29

I've never kept rough greens, but I have read some success stories. The keepers who had success kept them in well ventilated and planted terrariums with UV light. Insects were gut loaded and dusted with a calcium supplement. I'd recommend getting one without phospherus / calcium phosphate.

Some other snakes that might work are: brown snakes, and lined snakes. Both are worm eaters. I've never kept these so I don't know what kind of display snake these would make.

All of the above are typically only available wild caught. A male gartersnake of one of the smaller species would be the other option. Garters do like some heat so you'll need to incorporate a basking area. I'd also recommend getting one feeding on rodents or converting it to rodents. Garters fed worms make a huge mess (runny poos that smell out of this world has been my experience). Feeder fish are often treated in stores with things like antifungals etc. many of these contain heavy metals and other nasty things and I've read several stories of garters poisoned by feeder fish. Goldfish are also a no-no because they contain thyminase which will lead to a vitamin B deficiency.

Snakes don't really lend themselves to small naturalistic vivaria. You may want to consider lizards. There are a wide array that would do very well in the enclosure you're setting up. Last time I checked there were some little eastern glass lizards available in the lizard classifieds. They'd eat crickets like the rough green, will be hardier and they're legless.

-Alice

I think you're right about snakes not really lending themselves to my particular set up. Sigh. I got in the plants today and they've added so much beauty to the enclosure that I'm now worried that adding a snake may end up in the death of my ferns from uprooting.

Perhaps it's time to admit that frogs or a lizard might be happier in this set up than a snake.

Aren't legless lizards burrowing reptiles? Once the moss takes hold I don't think there will be much to burrow in.

They do like to stay hidden.

If you're leaning towards lizards, the small anole species are good candidates. They'll be wild caught so be sure to select healthy individuals and know how to sex them so that you don't end up with multiple males. They are always out and about with the male flashing his dewlap for the girls. Both green and brown anoles are readily available.

Some of the small day gecko species would be another option. Day geckos, however, like to climb to the top of the front glass to deficate resulting in streaks of poo running the length of the tank, so if you decide to go with them, be prepared to do a lot of glass cleaning.

Emerald swifts would be another species to consider. I haven't kept them, but I do have numerous other spiney lizards. They tend to be out and about and are always doing push ups to each other and they're a bit more robust than anoles or day geckos.

-Alice

The problem with E. Swifts is they don't have to mate to have babies. You wake up one morning and there's six more.

No poo on my new glass! Giggle.

If I go lizard I'd probably get a pair of green anoles...although where I come from they run around wild, seems odd to have one as a pet.

Thanks for all the help!

I had green anoles when I first got into herps. They're entertaining captives. If you have a pair, expect babies. I had no clue mine were breeding and laying eggs until I found the first hatchling hanging out on one of our lampshades.

The swifts do need to breed to have babies, but the females are imported pregnant (they may be able to have multiple litters from a single beeding).

-Alice

Baby anoles are cuties. In the springtime around Fl you can't take a step without a few of them scattering away from you.

Thanks for all the help!

I've actually decided to keep this tank animal free and I've set up a diffrent larger tank just for an African House Snake.