Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm working on my outside enclosure during the down time and have a few questions....

1. Anyone seen DHL's or Solares eating vegetation? If so, I would like to add some to the enclosure and I'm looking for what's needed. I'm planning on Allysum, Dandelions and possibly Desert Willows for starters. Any other suggestions? Any toxic plants I should avoid? BTW....I will be avoiding all spiny things (cactus/roses)....not willing to take the risk.

2. Anyone know where I can get a timed Ant/Cricket dispenser? I'm thinking I would like to place a couple of them in the enclosure and have them dispense prey at some periodic interval. Hope they exist, othewise I'll either need to invent one or bring them in each day to insure they are feeding.

3. What toxic issues (plants, fertilizers, paints, general garden products) should I be watching out for?

Thanks,
Roger

Why are you avoiding spiny stuff.I have cactus and other succulents in mine, which get me now and then, and it seems ok for the HL's sakes.
A bug dispenser.Wonder if they could take the heat of being in a container out in the sun.
Is there history of HL's meeting their demise because of cactus and such.Thought that was part of their natural environment?
scott

Understand the cactus issue, it's just that it's way too hard to get and maintain these guys to risk having a "spiny accident". I'm just personally not willing to take on that risk in favor of an esthetically pleasing setup.

Understand about the asthetically heat issue. Luckily in my location there isn't too much of an issue with that. Just the same, it is a problem I will eventually have to resolve. I've been thinking of using some kind of shade cloth or maybe a small umbrella for the dispenser, but first I have to find the dispenser.

Thanks,
Roger

NOt sure the size, but don't they have something like this for fish food, when your gone to hang on tank and it turns and dumps food? scott

Scott couldn't you make something that had a timed lid that would open and a mechanical connection would elevate it at a 45 degree angle and also slightly shake it,that could be accomplished with an elliptical very easy. But given that; are you saying you're going to have a place to keep these. I mean if you have to load them in the distributor you can just as easy put them in yourself? Is there an advantage between the two or did I miss something? I don't know what you thought of the ant idea I sent you, didn't here back, but you also need to verify your animals are eating? Anyway I think its an interesting concept and project and if you come up with something I would love to see it....Cheers!
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I've seen Bertrand Baur use plastic storage containers with a 1/4 inch diameter hole in the side. The ants or crickets slowly come out not over running the terrarium. To answer reptos question the advantage is two fold. First - you dont have to sit and wait an hour to release ants at small intervals (too many ants panic HLS) Second crickets usually run and hide when released so if they are slowly coming out the HLs usually recognize the source so you should have less crickets escape.

With an outdoor enclosure make sure at least 50% is shaded. HLS are active at a specific temp range. Heat stress will cause weight loss or death.

Jeff,

Side note...nice to see you active on the forum again. Always find your post valueable and informative.

Your response pretty much answers the "why" question for me. I work all day, and want to insure a steady stream of prey items for the animals in my outdoor enclosure while I'm away. The answer is some sort of timed feeder. As was suggested, I did a some checking into fish feeders and found that the FISH MATE AUTO FEEDER might be a viable solution. Will keep all informed on my findings.

Thanks,
Roger

Hey Roger,
I've never seen HLs eat plant matter, but I have never really tried it consistently either.
I can tell you that I talked to a lady who worked at Petsmart here in AZ and she told me a tale about 2 DHL's she had for 3 years, and that they would eat chopped up romaine lettuce fairly regularly. For what it's worth....
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I'm going to be revamping my outdoor enclosures this year too. I plan to move mine off the ground and put them on 4 by 4 posts about 3.5 feet off the ground. I've found after 3 years that the ground cages pose several problems.
1. They can be difficult to keep clean if they are very large.
2. If , pest, bacterial or viral contamination is a problem they can be difficult to disinfect. (all of my hibernators outdoors have wild mites every spring).
3. They are not conducive to intensive observation.

My idea is to build a 4 by 8 foot wood "pan" with plywood bottom (2x4 framed underneath for support)and 2x12 sides. Then probably use either tarp or pond liner to keep the wood dry. I'll put some kind of drainage in this so it will not fill up during rains. I use 1/4 inch mesh for the sides, which lets in good sun but keeps out everything bigger than 1/4 which includes most HL predators. I'll be using PVC roofing in some fashion, but have some challenges with this that are yet to be worked out.

If anyone else is interested in this kind of setup I'd really like to get together and work out any bugs or concerns before building.

I think there are several benefits to this kind of setup:
1. It gets it off the ground and out of the way of some types of predators.
2. It would be easier to clean and maintain than a ground enclosure. Complete substrata changes and sterilization as necessary.
3. Easier to observe your reptiles.
4. If done properly, temperature controls could be better.

If anyone is interested in working on this project starting very soon, drop me a note.

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Mark,

Several good points in your post.

Maybe a little description of the enclosure is warranted.

10' x 15' enclosure that is completely encircled by concrete slab. The walls are standard block walls 1 - 2' high (it's on a sligh slope, makes for good drainage) capped off with red bricks. I've tiled the upper 8" on the inside to insure the animals can not scale the walls. On the top of the bricks I've incorporated a dog fence to keep the dogs, racoons and cats out. For the top of the enclosure I'm creating a cover consisting of several panels with 1/2" galvenized screen that will lay flush on the bricks. Nothing should be able to get in, and nothing should be able to get out.

Location is in a Southern Cal. Urban housing track ~ 15miles from the Pacific. Full sun exposure all day. Temps are relatively mild due to being so near the ocean, but we do see 10-20 days of 95 /year. Because of that, I plan on providing shade cloth on ~ 1/3 of the enclosure.

Substrate....dug out the bottom 3-6" and trucked in granite sand to back fill 6". Mixed in a few bags of organic desert plan mix (no waste materials involved) as a fetilizer. I plan on covering that up with another inch or two of Play sand.

Cleaning....I'll watch it to see what's needed. No real plan in that department yet. I only have a couple of animals, so it shouldn't really be a problem.

Pesticides....that could be an issue as the neighbor in back does spray occasionally. Pretty sure I lost a couple of babies in 2004 due to that his spraying. If I see it happening, then the animals will come in for a week or two to allow all the contaminated insects to die out, meanwhile I will spray down the enclosure to dilute what ever may have drifted across the fence.

Mites/parasites/bacterial issues....hadn't thought of that. Hopefully the location along with the concrete slab will act as some sort of barrier. Still, will need to come up with some sort of protocol to insure sanitation in that area. And since I hibernate everything non-native inside, under controlled conditions, I'm not really worried about it being an issue during the winter.

Observation....the enclosure is just 3-4' from our kitchen window. We will be able to watch them while we do the dishes. Little motivation there. I also have 3 benches surrounding the enclosure, so I will be able to sit and view them at my leasure.

I like your idea of an elevated enclosure. May adopt that idea in my larger lizard pit.

Thanks,
Roger

Wow Roger - That is one hell of an enclosure!
Was this wall already part of the yard?
If not you're one dedicated dude.
You need to have a horned lizard forum BBQ when this is done and we can come admire it

I like the ideas involved in Cables enclosure too.

I was thinking of an ant/bug dispenser. My idea is a hanging overhead (size depending on size of enclosure) storage for the ants with a few holes or tubes in which they could crawl out and fall into the enclosure. No batteries, timers, or mechanical movement that would kill or injure insects as well. That way only a few could drop at a time - depending on how big/many holes in the storage container. Start with maybe a few little holes and observe how many come out over a time period and add more holes accordingly. Or if you used small, clear, rubber tubing you could route them to a particular part of the cage to be dispensed. Get creative with the tube routing and you can have an artificial ant mound.

In any case you could add ants on a daily basis
and not worry about heat killing them in mass quantities.

But the material the holes are in probably should be solid.
I am sure you have seen ants being kept in containers chew air holes edges bigger to escape. Maybe a plexiglass bottom with small holes drilled through - just work your way up on drill bit sizes.

Just throwing it out there.

Good to see everyone on this thread!

Mitch

I don't have horned lizards now, but when I did came up with a similar idea.
Get a small tube like a empty medicine container or a dark tubing like a 2 1/2 film tube or the alike. Make a hole on the lid large enough for the ants to get through. Or better yet, get rid of the lid. Pogos can't climb good especially on plastic if undscratched, right? Fit a thin wet sponge to the bottom of the tube to hyrdrate the ants. This small tube will be holding the ants and would then go inside a slightly wider tube/pvc pipe or whatever as long it passes through with ease. The large tube would then be fitted with a 12v pull solenoid. It's stem should pass through the large tube only, and on one side as well. This stem would be responsible of holding the small tube placed inside the large tube. (the small tube sits on top of the stem). The solenoid is powered and controlled by a 12v automatic multi-station sprinkler timer. The solenoid's stem would be pulled in when energized by the timer, releasing the small tube to the ground. The ants (or whatever feeder) would then crawl out of the small tube (if the lid is ommitted) or through the hole on the lid. The number of tube/solenoid assembly you can have will depend on the amount of stations the timer has. It should be safe to use outdoors as well, since it would run on 12v. What do you guys think? I like to see this done and find out if it would work. I would, be I have other projects going.

That is actually a pretty interesting idea. Are you saying use the sprinkler solenoids?
That could work. The only problem I see, where I live it is 115 degrees quite regularly. Ants won't survive a day in this kind of weather. I'd have to set it up indoors and make it so they could crawl through a tube or pipe to the cage outside, which could be done. Hmmmm.

I have an idea I am mulling over for a daily feeding system. As it is I tend to just dump a vial or two of ants into my outdoor enclosure. It's big enough that this usually works. If I want to keep them localized I provide some water or sometimes apple juice in a small butter dish lid for them to drink. This keeps them in one spot long enough for the HLs to come eat them.
This idea is a variation of Mitch's idea. What I am thinking of doing this year is setting up a 5 gallon bucket outside the cage with a few inches of wet sand, then run some surgical tubing or other tubing into the cage, so the ants come up out of it like they would a nest entrance. This will slow their emergence and present a more natural setting for HL feeding. The bucket could also contain slices of apple, or a lid of water to help ensure your ants have a good moisture and nutrient content before they are consumed. I believe this would spread the feeing out for a good part of the day and could also allow several "nest" sites for feeding within the cage. This might also be adaptable for indoor use.
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Tell me about it.. the heat could be a major set back. Let me see... didn't someone suggested shading. Perhaps little cocktail umbrellas for each tube j/k.
I got it! The ants could be cooled by installing the antfeeder mechanism inside a small cooler with Blueice or dry ice. Set the antfeeder/cooler under shade for additional protection. The feeder would work the same way, with the tubes falling out of the large tubes and through the cooler.

"Are you saying use the sprinkler solenoids"?
Yes but, you'll need a stem for it. There is however some 12vdc, 24vac solenoids that come with various stem types and lengths available at electronic stores.
I need to correct myself... I mentioned in my previous post that it would run on 12vdc. I apologize.. it would run 12vac unless you can get a 12vdc sprinkler timer or a battery powered one. However, 24vac is still safe to use outdoors.

I could draw the design and post it for you guy if you like. Let me know.
I'm actually stoke with this idea.
Like to see a protoype of it. Maybe I'll start working on it even though I don't have any Ps.