Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been quite busy lately and have not had a chance to post in a while. Just wanted to make some comments on some very good earlier posts I’ve read.

Danny, it was great to hear that your female dropped again. It is amazing how consistent the litter sizes are with greens with respect to the length of the female when you count both live young plus unfertilized ova. A 12 to 13 foot female will invariably drop from 20 to 25 young/ova in a litter. With 14 footers dropping around 25 to 30 and 15 footers dropping 30 to 35 young/ova. I will be able to test this again when breeding a proven 16 footer here in a couple of months. I would be interested in the stats on the young you produced if you get a chance.

Ben, great breeding shots you took. It looks like you have a pretty good chance of producing several litters this year. I would also be interested in the stats of the young on any greens that you produce this year. What are the sizes and ages of the female greens that are breeding for you this year? Also, those headshot photos you posted a few weeks back were excellent, and you have one of the most diverse groups of greens I have seen. I was particularly interested in the greens shown in the 3rd and 6th photos. They showed the ocular stripe colors that were more of the green background color typical of Amazon basin specimens. Most of the greens Jud and I work with are of this type. Do you know the histories on them by any chance?

One thing I have noticed when breeding greens is that the first sign of a female preparing to go into breeding mode is the major increase in appetite. Usually a few months before breeding commences, the females appetite picks up and she becomes a much more aggressive feeder than usual. I have noticed this with every female we have bred and it is a pretty good indicator that she is preparing to enter into a breeding cycle.

Another comment I read from someone was the question of housing an adult pair of greens together with reference to the issue of cannibalism. It has been reported on several occasions that adult female greens in breeding condition have killed and eaten males in the wild. There have been a number of greens kept as adult pairs or in breeding groups in zoos for many years that have not experienced cannibalistic behavior toward the males. Jud or I have likewise never seen anything even resembling this type of behavior with our breeding trials. I would have to assume that these females in the wild have taken those males in an attempt to add to their energy stores for the impending pregnancy. In captivity, females are typically well fed and in great shape for breeding, and are probably not near as inclined toward this type of action.

Thanks again for your postings,

Kelly

Kelly, I wonder, is it pretty reliable do you think that orange post ocular stripe and green stripe pretty much show whether the snakes in question come from the Amazon or Orinocco river basins? My yellow has just ovulated and resumed feeding for the third consecutive year. Best wishes with your big green.
Mike

Mike,
Geographic range identification of greens based on postocular stripe coloration is definitely a controversial issue. That said, I have personally seen at least 50 to 60 photos of E. murinus, with accompanying location data, and have noticed a very definite pattern of distribution with regards to postocular stripe color. Orinoco basin specimens did show some well defined shade of yellow or orange coloration in the postocular stripe virtually 100% of the time. I have never seen a photo of a murinus that originated from the Orinoco basin that had the relatively solid background green coloration of the postocular stripe. A great photo example of this green ocular type can be seen in the 3rd and 6th photos in the December 12th post by Ben Renick.

Conversely, I would say that about 90% of the greens with Amazon basin locality data I have seen photos of, did show the relatively solid green postocular stripe. The other roughly 10% did have a very small amount of yellow or orange in the postocular area.

I would never say that the postocular stripe coloration could be used to determine the major river basin of origin with 100% accuracy. But I do believe that it could be used to give a fairly good probability of the most likely basin of origin. The one issue then remains within the spectrum of postocular color types, and that is the small percentage of those which fall into the intermediary color group. Unless capture location data are available, these will always be problematic, as I don’t believe there are any other morphological traits that can be used to distinguish between the two populations at this time.

That female yellow of yours is incredible. Do you have any weights on her just before ovulation each year? I would be curious to see if she is actually heavier each consecutive year, or if she is just maintaining her same weight from year to year.

Kelly

Thanks Kelly, I really optimize her feeding after she gives birth, and I know that when she refuses rabbits in later Oct. she will still take jumbo rats til early Dec. It was
Bens post actually that got me wondering about stripe colour and origin. I have no scales large or small, which reminds me I never weighed my babies last year as you kindly requested. I will make a sincere effort this year lol. I think she grows a little every year and her fertility rate increased since her first litter also. I suspect 29 or 30 babies this summer. I hope Bens marbled goes...just imagine.......I will post her pic after her next shed in a couple of weeks.........Mike

Thanks Kelly! I will definently be taking good records of anything produced this year. The two female greens I'm breeding this year are both around 6 years old, one is a little over 9', the other is a little over 10'. Definently smaller for their age, but still eat like there is no tomorrow! I'm cycling two males through the females, but I have only noticed one of them showing any interest, he is 4 years, around 8'-9' as well. The other is only 3 years, and much smaller.

As for the histories, those are actually the two females that are breeding this season. They were purchased as captive bred (which you never know sometimes), as for the origins, I'm not sure, I'll send an email and see if I can get some more background information for you!

I'm hoping that Marble takes as well Mike! Her feeding response shut off for awhile, kicked on for awhile, and is currently slowing down. The same goes for the other Yellows I'm breeding, once the cycling started and males started cycling through, their feeding kicked off. Over the last couple months, it has kicked back on. Everything is still being cycled and males are still working the females like there is no tomorrow, so we'll see how it goes!

Thanks,
Ben
www.benrenick.com

"Ben, great breeding shots you took. It looks like you have a pretty good chance of producing several litters this year. I would also be interested in the stats of the young on any greens that you produce this year. What are the sizes and ages of the female greens that are breeding for you this year? Also, those headshot photos you posted a few weeks back were excellent, and you have one of the most diverse groups of greens I have seen. I was particularly interested in the greens shown in the 3rd and 6th photos. They showed the ocular stripe colors that were more of the green background color typical of Amazon basin specimens. Most of the greens Jud and I work with are of this type. Do you know the histories on them by any chance?
"
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Ben R.
www.benrenick.com