Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've fed my baby female dum 3 times since I've acquired her...each time a live small hopper (she refused take f/t and f/k left overnight). I dropped the live mouse hopper in the evenings and observed from afar. My dum was definitely interested as she immediately came out from hiding inside her substrate. I noticed her striking at the hopper but each time she missed, or would hit the hopper but not get a good grab. After a few hours of this, I would try dangling the mouse from its tail directly in front of my dum's nose. The first feeding this worked - she struck accurately and began the constricting process and ate. The 2 feeding sessions following, after the few hours without success where I would then intervene and try dangling the mouse close to my dum since it worked the first time, I/she had no luck. She would strike at the hopper and actually hit it, but I am not sure if it's because she's striking so hard that she just ends up "pushing" the hopper away and ends up not grabbing it. Anyhow, the last 2 feedings it came to a point, after many relentless tries, where I left the little hoppers overnight to find out the next day that my dum had taken them successfully. Have any other dum owners out there come across a bad striker? Could it be a case where my dum is just young and still developing its striking technique? Temps/humidity/substrate/hides are all monitored closely. She ends up eventually getting the hoppers each time...but it takes so long that I wonder if it's a case where she's only successful once out of so many attempts throughout the evening.

Dums by nature are bad strikers. You could try leaving an f/t in front of her over night. Also, how big of a cage is she in, you may want to try feeding her in a smaller enclosure.
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Thanks,
Amy
My Boids

Thanks for the reply! When switching her over to f/t, I'll try that idea. I'll wait until she's inside the hide and leave the f/t item at the opening. She's currently housed inside a 10g tank. I know tubs would be ideal, however, I do feel each snake is unique and luckily for me she's eaten each time. Once she's outgrown this tank, I'll be moving her to a plastic reptile cage...as my royal and blood pythons are housed in. I didn't know dums carried the reputation of being bad strikers...but that's exactly one of the reasons I decided to post - to find out more from some experienced keepers!

I take the missed strikes as "defensive" strikes, not bad strikes. If they're disturbed or just don't feel like feeding at the time, some of mine go off the charts striking at the prey item. This generally happens if I try to feed a second prey item. They never miss the first meal, and they don't miss the next when they do this, they just don't try to grab onto it. It's just a hard and fast strike where they pull back without actually biting onto the prey. Yeah, they "bite" it, by putting teeth into the prey, but usually just don't close down. Generally though, if my Dumerils are ready to feed, the strike is hard, fast, and accurate! I can't see a Dumerils being a "bad striker" by nature as this would make feeding in the wild difficult, when they more than likely can't afford to miss too often.

I agree with PBM. My dumeril acts the same way too; when he wants to eat his strike is fast and accurate, but when he just wants his peace and quite, his strikes are way off. When I first acquired the little guy I was under the impression that he had some sort of problem when he missed during his strikes, most of the times by a great distance. But then I realised it was his way of scaring away the rat I was giving him, as if it was trying to tell it to go away!!! But when he was hungry, believe me he never missed by a millimeter.

So I wouldn't worry if I were you. You'll check out his accuracy when he feeds.
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1.0.0 Dumerils Boa
1.0.0 Royal Python

Haha, you may be right, they could be defensive strikes. However, I do have to say as compared to my bci or even my ball pythons...dums do not strike as accurately, or perhaps you'd say they are more wild. When I first got into dums, I was warned of this as well by several people.

You mention that if dums were bad strikers then they wouldn't be able to survive as well in the wild....honestly captivity is not Madagascar, and many of us do not provide even close to a natural environment for our animals. Dums are ambush predators, and when I provide enough substrate even my adults completely burrow beneath with only their heads peaking. In my opinion this is the preferred hunting style for them. So, I believe that dums can be wild strikers when they are put in a position that is not as natural for them.

Just my two cents!
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Thanks,
Amy
My Boids

Woah, a few replies, alright! Thanks for your sharing your opinions and comments. I was wondering if it was possible the missed strikes were defensive strikes, but also thought I came across some literature about dum's not having the most accurate strikes.

For each of the 3 feeding sessions I've had with my new dum, the hoppers did end up being eaten overnight. I believe my dum was hungry those days as I noticed an interesting pattern in her behaviour: after eating (i.e. during digestion), she likes to soak herself in the water dish for approximately 5-6 days. Then after, she burrows herself completely in her substrate. I take this as a sign that she's once again hungry and in "hunting" mode, which times perfectly with her weekly feeding schedule.

Is this type of behaviour common with dums - burrowing/hiding only when they are hungry and ready to eat?

One other question I have: I've read that many dums burrow themselves with their heads exposed from the substrate. Every time my little girl burrows in the aspen, she completely disappears...head and all! Is this uncommon?

I get wild strikes, but looking at the situation, they happen when food is in the room, and it's feeding time. At this point, I have to pull most tubs open with the hook because as soon as the tub is open, they will shoot out with mouths wide open....before I even get the food within range. So, yeah, that's a totally wild strike because they know something is coming when that drawer opens. I still don't think being a lousy aim would be any benefit in the wild. If they just came flying out with their mouths open and swinging, a bad bite/constriction is going to become a wide open opportunity for the prey item to fight back and cause pretty severe damage to the snake. Of course no cage is like Madagascar, and likewise, you can't take what you see in captivity and assume they'd be as sloppy in the wild when prey is not presented on a weekly basis week in and week out. The captive animals are conditioned way differently than wild animals. If they sit in what ever manner you assume they do in the wild, and wait 3 weeks or whatever for food to come rambling by within range, do you think a wild misguided strike is "natural"? I would go so far as to say wild babies are not difficult feeders either, but they seem to be for a lot of people in captivity. I can't comment on the burrowing in the cage substrate as I use paper for substrate, not wood chips/mulch. I keep my babies in shoe box tubs, with paper substrate and a water bowl. No hides, no mulch, and have no feeding problems with them. Sub-adults go into larger racks and 4' cages and none of them have hides as I've simply had no use for them. I'm able to keep them all healthy, feeding, and breeding keeping things simple for about the last 18 years. Man, it's hard to believe I've kept Dumerils for that long, lol. The first one I saw for sale, they wanted $1200.00 and I was hooked! Anyway, everyone observes and comes up with varying opinions based on their own observations, the original poster will do the same. Each animal is also individual and believe me, there are some aggressive Dumerils out there, although most will tell you they've NEVER seen an aggressive one! Oh yeah, the BCI comment, mine usually either strike or not, rather than defensive strikes at the prey. So, it's a hard comparison when the attitudes seem to conflict each other. Maybe BCI are more bold, and Balls seem to either want to eat or "ball" up. Just completely different personalities to compare. Young boas seem to take as much as you'll put in the cage, Dumerils don't, and power feeding most Dumerils would prove difficult.

I re-read your line about being wild strikers. I think I mistook what you were saying in my original reply. So, if it makes no sense, that would be why! LOL, take care!

Haha!

I totally agree though, even with in the same species, snakes can have very different personalities, so it is hard to say "one dumerils fits all"

My Kenyans are actually the wildest strikers I know when feeding live...they come rushing out of the substrate at light speed, to strike at the spot the mouse might be in in five minutes haha! Although, they always get it after the second or the third time!
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Thanks,
Amy
My Boids

Thanks for your feedback guys. Would you agree that my dum completely burrowing herself in the substrate (no head poking out) is rather the exception than the norm (compared to burrowing with head poking out)?

Honestly, I don't use anything they can burrow under, so I couldn't really tell you what's the norm when it comes to that. I'd have to assume if she's totally buried, she is trying to feel secure, and if she's peaking out, she might be waiting for food. You'll get it all figured out over time and then you'll be the one answering similar questions! As long as all the basics of good husbandry are met and she's feeding, you'll have plenty of time to figure out your Dumerils personality and individual habits. Keep us posted, take care

That's true, I guess I'm just the type who likes to find out every little detail I can about my babies! I'm closely monitoring the enclosure conditions and she has in fact ended up eating for me all 3 attempts...so I think everything's OK. I'll keep you posted on her progress and personality over time!

It's funny I got my first Dum last thursday and tried feeding her a mouse but I think it was a tad too big. I'm gonna get a hopper tonight and give it a try if not I'll try a live feeding. But when I tried with the adult mouse she was very interested in it so I'm sure she's hungry and this morning she actually hit the side of the aquarium at my gf.

Interestingly enough from the day I got her she's kept herself under the substrate except for her head.

I'll see if she keeps it up after she's fed.

Hey apocalyp. just wondering if you attempted to feed your new dum? If so, what was the outcome? I offered my dum a live hopper on Thursday, monitored, and after about 2 hours - at which point the hopper had buried itself under the aspen in a corner - my baby girl scented her way to that corner and then BAM! Accurate strike and a nice meal was had!

Yep the first time I fed her live in a seperate tank and then this past weekend she took a F/T hopper right away. She also took a bite out of the gf. lol All very accurate strikes too.