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10 mo NAWTs, spaces between scutes puffy

portsample Jun 08, 2008 11:05 PM

I've got 3 NAWTs that hatched last August. Two of them appear to show swelling around the margins of their carapace scutes: primarily the margins between the medial and the edge scutes. All of the caprapace scutes in general appear slightly dished in. I've attached a picture of the three on the beach at the end of their habitat: it is a 55gal tank w/low partitions separating bog, water & beach. They're all really good eaters and have been getting a good diversity of bugs, worms and crustaceans, as well as fruits and veggies. They are under a uvB lamp and get ReptiCal once a week and 1-2 sticks of Reptamin daily. They are growing rapidly: this could be a factor in the shell issue.

Any thoughts on if this is an issue that needs addressing, or is this normal development at this age?

Thanks!
(3) 10Mo old NAWTs

Replies (6)

curtis9980 Jun 09, 2008 10:50 AM

Are you sure it's just not the scutes working to shed? They sound about the age for that to start happening, especially if they've been growing. If so, you should notice the scutes starting to curl next. That's what my guess would be. I really can't tell from the picture.

kensopher Jun 18, 2008 06:07 PM

I think your instincts were correct. They are growing very rapidly. I would decrease feedings to every other day. Also, some cuttlebone placed in the enclosure may be a good idea. They can nibble on that as they wish.

Wood turtles don't actually shed their outermost scutes like many aquatic turtles...it is an adaptation for living partially on land. It adds to the rigidity of the shell.

curtis9980 Jun 18, 2008 09:34 PM

"Wood turtles don't actually shed their outermost scutes like many aquatic turtles...it is an adaptation for living partially on land. It adds to the rigidity of the shell."

Are there other aquatic turtles that do not shed their scutes as well? That's interesting.

kensopher Jun 20, 2008 07:43 AM

Um, let's see. I don't think snappers shed outer scutes. Painteds, sliders, cooters, blandings, spotted, and Western ponds do. I can't remember if maps, muds, or musks do.

I don't know...it's a mixed bag. Most of your fast, streamlined aquatic turtles shed their scutes. They "choose" streamlining over rigidity.

portsample Jun 21, 2008 02:58 AM

Thanks for the response. I know from personal experience that snappers, musks and diamondbacks don't. I was surprised to read the posting indicating that NAWTs shed scutes.

I've attached another pic of the three. There is actually more diversity in shell shape and topography than I'd have suspected in three siblings. The one on the right has a very pronounced keel...almost musk turtle-ish. The other two are more flattened. The scutes on these other two have the slightly dished-in look with marginal puffiness that concerns me. The one in the middle has the most dishing and concerns me the most.

Have you had hatchings at this size/age that have had this condition?

These guys are all great eaters. I've been feeding them a mixture of fruits/veggies plus animal matter (meal worms, salmon bits rolled in Reptacal, amphipods, and worms). They also get 1-2 pellets Reptamin/day. I've adjusted their diet to reduce the meat component to slow growth, but still give them access to veggies. They're in a well filtered and maintained "boggy" tank with a beach at one end that is lit by a UVb light for 5hrs per day, and regular incandecent growlight the rest of the day.

They are all three incredibly alert and active and seem to otherwise be in very good health. Thanks for responding and making comments regarding the sloughing scutes.
Image

kensopher Jun 28, 2008 07:42 AM

From that angle, they don't look bad at all! But, the original picture does show very slight abnormal growth. I think you're doing the right thing by slowing growth. I think you will begin to notice improvement soon.

I've never had NA Woods with growth issues. However, after just two or three months, I decrease feedings to every other day. This WILL lead to tail nipping, though! Miss another feeding, and they'll start biting each others' feet. Your idea of making veggies available should help.

Make sure that you are offering veggies and fruits with the most beneficial calcium to phosphorus ratio. I've kept box turtles for more than 20 years, and growth abnormalities are very common with them. Out of necessity, I've had to research the nutrient content of fruits and veggies offered.

Good veggies - Kale, collards, turnip greens, green and red leaf lettuce, romaine, squash(both summer and fall varieties), cucumbers, and partially cooked carrots and sweet potatoes(too many sweet potatoes may give them runny stool). Aquatic plants such as water hyacinth, watercress, and anacharis(Elodea) are good also.
Suprisingly, my Wood turtles of all ages go bonkers for romaine lettuce!

Apples are one of the only fruits that contain a beneficial calcium to phosphorus ratio. I only feed my box turtle fruits about twice a month. My Woods get them more often.

The vast majority of Wood turtles can be raised on a diet that is not so restrictive. I'm only recommending a more strict diet for you specifically because you have had some issues.

I hope this is helpful. Good luck with them.

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