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DHLs--observations on feeding

53kw Jun 17, 2008 02:59 PM

While literature reports that horned lizards, especially the desert species, prey almost exclusively on ants, I am still not convinced they require some nutrient found only in ants, as that is not the way evolution works. It's commonplace for people, including scholars, to fall into the habit of imagining that evolution sees a need and fills it, but this is impossible. Of course, the way evolution really works is when an organism lucks into a mutation AND the mutation happens to have an immediate and substantively beneficial application. Neutral mutations are lost through dilution back into the general gene pool through matings with siblings who are just as successful as the mutated individuals, because the mutation does not confer any profound selective advantage that would enable the mutant to prosper to the extent it outstrips its non-mutant siblings. Negative mutations typically kill the individuals who express them, and that’s the end of that.

The ancestors of horned lizards lucked into a mutation that allowed them to detoxify ant venom, enabling them to exploit an abundant, ubiquitous food source, allowing them to inhabit relatively competition and predator free habitats like very dry deserts.

That said, I’m still reluctant to cut off wild-caught horned lizards from their native prey, and husbandry experience by horned lizard keepers suggests there may be more to ants in the diet than meets the eye. Despite my reservations regarding some magic nutrient found in ants, I’m not ready to risk the health of the animals on my suspicions.

Several weeks ago I located some Desert Horned Lizards in a local pet shop. I asked how long they had been there and what they were eating. I was told the lizards had been in the store for about four months and were eating vitamin dusted crickets with occasional mealworms. This does not seem like a diet likely to sustain health in horned lizards and yet the animals in the shop were bright-eyed, active and well fleshed. I am satisfied that the shop owners were accurate in their claims as to the length of time the lizards had been in the shop.

I asked if they would be willing to test some ideas for me regarding acceptability of local ants as prey items. Instead, they asked me to just take the lizards home and work on them there.

These Desert Horned Lizards are likely from southern Nevada. Sherbrooke reports that Desert Horned Lizards in that area prefer to feed on a harvester ant which forages alone. I offered the lizards some carpenter ants, which are very large, black ants, as individual ants and in small groups. I also offered some of the winged reproductive carpenter ants, which are larger still, nearly one-quarter inch long.

At first the lizards showed little interest in the ants, preferring crickets. After a few days, one lizard started eating the ants and little by little two others have followed suit. I find it interesting that they seemed at first to prefer ants which were injured or still sluggish from refrigeration. They even ate dead ants, including rarely eating ants which had been laying on the substrate for hours. I did not notice any preference for such ants, and I suspect the eating of long-dead ants is accidental—a consequence of routine tongue-touching to investigate anything on the ground and subsequent swallowing of the dead ant after it adhered to the lizard’s tongue. Ants which were injured or sluggish were deliberately targeted, however. The lizards also showed a strong interest in the reproductive ants, which as I said, are much larger than worker or soldier ants.

This size-based prey preference is intriguing. While the lizards will sit and wait for an ant to walk in front of them, or wait for an ant to be dropped from forceps to land in front of them, they will pursue reproductive ants and will also pursue crickets as vigorously as whiptail lizards pursue their prey. Perhaps an individual ant is not worth the energy invested in pursuit, but a larger meal like a cricket is. Additionally, because ants walk over literally every millimeter of soil, there is little need to chase them—one will be along soon enough. I had been thinking that wild caught horned lizards in particular might prefer ants since the lizards would have learned the habit of feeding on ants while wild. In that case, the lizards could be expected to show preference for prey the same size, color and activity pattern as an ant, and yet these lizards show a strong preference for larger prey which looks nothing like an ant. Given the choice between simultaneously offered crickets of different sizes, these horned lizards typically attack the largest available prey.

While these lizards did accept mealworms, two of them regurgitated stomach contents which included mealworms and I have stopped offering large mealworms. Very small mealworms and teneral mealworm pupae seem to be digested without problems. One of the lizards in particular, the only female—who appears gravid—eagerly feeds on small mealworms from a shallow dish, typically emptying the entire dish—about twenty small mealworms at a sitting. As I am trying to get the lizards to return to a more natural diet, small mealworms are offered only a few times weekly.

Examination of the lizards’ droppings shows that the composition of the droppings has changed slightly. When the lizards came home from the pet shop their droppings looked like the droppings of any insectivorous lizard—mostly cricket parts. Since their diet now includes so many ants their droppings more closely resemble the droppings of wild horned lizards—mostly ant parts.

This is all very preliminary and quite unscientific but interesting. I find that these Desert Horned Lizards are active and alert, and remain well fleshed on a mixed diet of ants and crickets. While these lizards do prey on large crickets, I prefer to offer smaller crickets just because I still cling to the notion they would be easier to digest. I must acknowledge that ants are probably one of the most difficult insects to digest (which is likely why wild horned lizard droppings contain so much undigested ant material), so perhaps my concern over the horned lizards’ digestive abilities is misplaced.

The enclosure is a design based on a zoo-originated discovery that venting the heated air from under the heat lamp is beneficial. The cage is four feet long, two feet deep and fourteen inches tall with a 65-watt spot bulb at one end. That same end has an axial fan rated at 55 cfm which extracts air from the cage through a screened vent under the fan. The far end of the cage has a vent to allow replacement of the vented air. This arrangement creates a steady breeze that refreshes the air in the cage several times each minute. Lights are two Lumichrome bulbs with a CRI of 98 and a temperature of 6700K, and a ZooMed 10.0 UVB bulb at the basking end. I find that the lizards close their eyes if the UV bulb is left on too long, so that bulb runs only a few hours at a time, a few days each week. Infrared thermometer readings show that temperatures at the basking site are about 105 F and surface temperatures of the lizards themselves are about 95-102. The lizards also get real sunlight by being placed into a sunning cage which is put outside on warm sunny days.

The particular points of this experience that most intrigue me are that these horned lizards show a strong preference for prey larger than ants, that they have well-developed pursuit behavior which they employ when attacking non-ant prey, that they will accept a species of ant which is not their native prey but is readily available locally, and that they showed a strong interest in injured and chilled ants to the extent that the availability of injured and chilled ants may have convinced the more reluctant lizards in this test to begin eating the available ants.

After many encounters with the particular species of carpenter ant in question, I wonder if this is a stinging species. I have had ants on me many times while disturbing the nests and have not been stung, though the ants do bite. There is another local species of native ant which is a mound-building harvester. This is a smaller species and may be suitable for smaller horned lizards such as hatchlings or Round-Tailed Horned Lizards.

I have kept and bred many reptiles including desert lizards but I can always benefit from suggestions of keepers who have more experience with horned lizards. If my female Desert Horned Lizard is gravid, does anyone have any tips to offer as to how to convince her to lay in a suitable nest site inside an indoor cage? Also, any thoughts on incubating the eggs would be most helpful.

Replies (9)

Cable_Hogue Jun 18, 2008 08:52 AM

You have brought up the age old argument to some extent as to whether ants are required or simply convenient. This seems to be a polarizing topic on most horned lizard forums, but I believe your observations serve to show that the middle ground is closer to the truth than anything.
All horned lizard habitat I have observed (6 species) has at some point in the year had sizable hatches of grass hoppers of various species. All of these horned lizard species have been observed to eat these grass hoppers when they are available. I do believe that ants are important as a percentage of horned lizard diet, but a percentage of other insects would seem acceptable by all indications. I have had similar experiences with the meal worms but have not experimented much with the smaller ones. Once I saw the issue with the large ones I cut them from the diet.

Regarding the attraction to the large winged ants, my thought would be that it might be the wings more than the size that is attracting them. If you want to try an experiment, take a small length of white dental floss and tie it in a bow about the size of a bee. Then tie some dark thread to it and drag it across your tank. You will be amazed. Horned lizards are not nearly as quick in their attempts to grab flying insects as many other lizards they compete with. But from observation it would seem they still relish the opportunity to include non-ant food items.

There are several of us that are interested in working up a feeding study, basically comparing the growth and effects of three diets. Ants, non-ants, and some mixture of the two. If you would be interested in participating in this drop me an email and we can work out the details. Some of the early data has some interesting implications for a non-ant diet in hatchling growth.

To induce nesting indoors you want to have a good depth to your substrata. Between 5 and 8 inches is good. In my observation (unscientific) there are a few critical factors. Stable and adequate temperature. This is usually near the basking buld. Adequate moisture content in the soil. This can be achieved by picking a central spot also near the bulb and wetting the substrata there regularly. The moisture will radiate out and this will cause a moisture as well as a temperature gradient that should provide the right conditions somewhere from the center to the edge. A large flat stone seems to be the point cornutum and solare gravitate to. I have had both species nest right under stones. I believe this is because the stone will absorb heat during the day, and then radiate it out during the cooler night, which makes for a more consistent temperature.
The rest is a mixture of all the conditions that provide a low stress and healthy environment. Proper lighting, cage size (yours sounds very good), and diet.
I have had a cornutum lay eggs in a setup as described above and I didn't realize she had nested. While I was removing the substrata for replacement I inadvertently found the eggs, destroying one in the process. Inside was a well developed horned lizard.

I personally don't recommend leaving the eggs in an indoor enclosure as it is more prone to drastic fluctuations than a more natural outdoor setup.

Below is a post I made to another forum regarding incubation, so forgive the cut and paste.

Perlite, vermiculite or even sand will work in a pinch. Wet it down well, and then drain off any excess water that will drip out of the media. Be sure to fill the incubator reservoirs or if need be put a shallow dish full of water in with your egg dish. Make sure any hatchlings that crawl out won't drown. Temp should be about 85 /- a couple of degrees.
You can mist inside, but don't wet the element or thermostat. It is fine to add water to the media every week or so. If it's really drying out add as needed. Since the eggs sit right on top, they are in the driest part of the media, so the bottom can be a little wet.
Put the eggs in a dish with a few inches of the side above the media level to try and keep in the hatchlings.
Some folks use a lid on the container, some don't. I find you don't need to as long as you keep the humidity high.
Take the incubator lid off once a day and let in fresh air. Good time to check the water levels inside.
It doesn't seem to be important to keep the eggs separated, although I do if they aren't stuck together.
remove any eggs that begin to mold. They don't usually mold unless they are already dead.
You can get the eggs wet but there is no need to do this on purpose.
Make sure the room they are in won't exceed your thermostat temps as there is no way for it to stay cooler than room temp.
Make sure the eggs don't experience any radical temperature changes either way. (Like spraying cold water on them).

Amazingly the eggs are not as delicate as one might think and will make it through if you come close to adhering to these basics.
Make sure the tank your females are in has at least 6 inches of substrata, and that part of this near the warmth of the basking bulb is moist all the way down to the bottom.
I suggest you weigh your females before they lay so you won't have to guess if they dropped the eggs or not.
They can be done nesting before you get home from work, and then the search will be on for the nesting spot.
A spoon and patients is needed to ensure you don't damage them digging them up.
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Phrynosoma.Org
Phrynosoma.Com

Cable_Hogue Jun 18, 2008 09:15 AM

I also wanted to say that I admire your keen interest in HLs and willingness to post your thoughts. It's refreshing to see.

Quote: "I must acknowledge that ants are probably one of the most difficult insects to digest (which is likely why wild horned lizard droppings contain so much undigested ant material), so perhaps my concern over the horned lizards’ digestive abilities is misplaced. "

Why do you say that the ants seem to be largely undigested? I have recently developed an interest in analyzing what percentage of digestible matter is actually removed from the ant by the lizard. It seems weight "before and after" would be a simple method, but I am sure there are better ways to analyze the content. Caloric? Fat? Proteins? etc...
You sound as though you have some training in scientific method. Is this something you might have some insight into?

This is a study I worked on with some hatchling horned lizards a while back. You can see that these hatchlings put the ants to good use in their growth.

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Phrynosoma.Org
Phrynosoma.Com

53kw Jun 18, 2008 03:16 PM

Ants are heavily sclerotized and have many parts which are very hard, such as their jaws. The parts of ants that are found in the droppings of horned lizards, using Regal Horned Lizard droppings as an example, include pretty much all the ant parts--legs, heads, jaws, thoracic shells. The connecting membranes are gone and the parts are jumbled in the droppings, so digestion probably dissolved the intersegmental membranes. I also note that live Pogos are not very juicy. Hymenopterans can be surprisingly empty of bug juice and still function. I have not read any specific literature on the food value of ants, or how much of their value passes in the droppings of horned lizards, but it seems uncomplicated enough to test some fresh ants for caloric value and compare them to ant parts in horned lizard droppings.

It would also be possible to determine the specific chemical content of ants, and this may have been done already. Edward Wilson might know of some work in this area. Again, comparisons could be made to the chemical content of horned lizard droppings.

This may have all been done already but I have not located any publications dealing with it yet. My thoughts regarding the digestibility of ants stem from my experience with different species of insectivorous reptiles. The ones that eat crickets and other insects seem to produce droppings which are less recognizable as to their contents. I also note that when I fed the occasional ant to my Side-Blotched Lizards and Tree Lizards, I occasionally noticed recognizable ant parts in their droppings.

It may turn out that the reason horned lizard droppings have so much recognizable ant material is an artifact of the way horned lizards feed--by coating an ant with saliva and swallowing it without chewing. Interestingly, crickets and other non-ant prey are chewed a little, though not as much as other kinds of lizards chew the same non-ant prey items.

rkhorne Jun 18, 2008 02:57 PM

For DHL's, I've been pre-soaking a section of the enclosure sand (LWD ~ 8" x 8" x 6" in between two bricks that have been sunk into the sand clear to the bottom of the tank. Over the top of these two bricks I lay a flat, flag stone type rock such that the bottom of the rock is on the surface of the sand. The light (heat) source is off to one side of the tank such that the wet area gets partial heat (~85F). I moisten the sand every few days in order to maintain a damp consistency, but not wet. When the HL is ready to lay, she digs a cavern underneath the flag stone, where the bricks keep the stone from caving in. You'll know when she's done when the area is returned back to normal. I then immediately retrieve the eggs and place in an incubator just like any other herp eggs.

Good luck.
Roger

53kw Jun 18, 2008 05:27 PM

I like the brick idea, and also thanks to Cable Hogue for his excellent suggestions and tips. I have some heat tape and may lay a strip of it under the cage, under the end where I can put some bricks with a nice duffy ultrafine alluvial soil I got from the banks of the Salt River in Arizona to use for desert lizards to lay in. The soil makes great burrows without cave-ins, holds and wicks moisture beautifully and is fine enough for the smallest desert lizards to easily dig in.

I forgot to mention the rest of the substrate is wild sand from the shores of the Great Lakes. I like wild sand because its grains are worn smooth and less likely to interlock if swallowed--easier to pass, is my thinking there. Play sand is obtained by harvesting sand from quarries or by breaking up Quartz deposits. Without spending time being churned by waves or blown by the wind, I worry that sand retains its sharp interlocking surface contours and is not only more likely to cause intestinal impactions and abrasions, it's more abrasive to live on.

Reptoman Jun 19, 2008 08:43 AM

You have so much to discuss I am only going to make a few cursory comments.

The meal worms, I would only feed very light or fresh shed ones, I don't believe they are healthy for long term. I do occasionally feed wax worms.

Horned Lizards are opportunistic and will eat other insect faire just throw in a small wounded moth and find out how fast they go after that.... but if you look at scat contense which I think is a tell tail sign of their normal intake it usually more or less is ants in content, also beetles and even small grasshoppers etc.
Also the fact that they go after other prey shouldn't be surprising, but a long term diet I just ask the question if all the scientific work on scat analysis has determined the content, I think it behooves one to make ants at least the lions share of their diet in order to maintain them well in captivity. But there are people out there that have done this without and I am open to that if thats their but I have always fed mine ants.

With respect to your horned lizard, you can clump up a large mound of damp soil (Home Depot play sand) that borders the hot outer rim of your basking bulb light on the ground and cover it with a large rock and others so she can dug down under and find a warm spot but not hot to deposit the eggs support the rock so it doesn't fall on the animals if she digs under it. The damp soil will also help her she will start digging a hole into the mound, probably under the rock or what ever you place in there.
After she lays you need to collect them and set them up. As a suggestion a 1:1 ration of vermiculite to distilled water or 1:1 1/4 might be good. As long as the eggs grow and do not change then this should work you can always spray a little in the container around the perimeter, don't spray the eggs, and maybe 86-88 degrees for incubation? I would set it more at 88 degrees.
I assume your using a hervobator?

Your observations are very interesting.
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www.phrynosoma.org

Fireside3 Jul 12, 2008 06:05 AM

The literature that HLs prey to a high degree on ants, it should be remembered, is based on observations taken ad nauseam.

Ants are found in much higher abundance in the desert than many other insects, so are a convenient prey item. They are also much easier prey for HLs to capture, as opposed to crickets, grasshoppers, and other jumping or winged insects, which would actually be much rarer fare for a HL than most people think. Such insects would be quickly to safety out of reach of the HL, and the HLs rate of successful hunt against these types of prey would be low. HLs do not pursue prey very far, and in fact, ants usually come to the HL, which is another convenience. Outside of an enclosed environment, I think you will find that HLs would not tend to pursue anything that far, and are not as suited to the agile task as other lizards, such as: spiny lizards, zebras, or whiptails. In the tank, you set up an unnaturally successful hunt.

Many people base their prey preference studies on several flawed premises. Off the top of my head, I can tell you that the desire of a Horned Lizard to chase down a cricket or anything else, probably has a lot to do with the fact that such prey is more rare for them. It's not surprising, and it also does not offer proof they should be feed crickets more often or as a substitute food.

Just because they chase it and seem to prefer it, does not establish that it should be a preferred prey item to offer over ants. A Horned Lizard would probably chase down and devour a fire fly too, which would be deadly...just as my dog would eat a case of Snicker's bars if left to his own decision! Therefore, to offer anecdotal prey preferences as a means to establishing preferred prey offerings, is flawed science the way I see most people conducting it.

It is my position, through my own research, that HLs derive certain nutrients from harvester ants, and that these ants are superior prey items for HLs for many reasons. This does not mean that HLs cannot survive without harvester ants, but it is my position that they are much better off with them, and that they are adapted by several physiological traits to capitalize on ants. Without them, they will not have optimal health, and though they will not die directly as a consequence of lack of ants, I am convinced that lack of ants is indirectly related to health problems which may cause untimely death.

Detoxification of the ant venom through digestion is no special feat. Many organisms can do this. In fact, snake venom can be ingested with no ill effect so long as you have no open wounds in the mouth or digestive tract. I have done it myself.

The resistance of Phrynosoma to Pogo venom by injection, is in my opinion more so a function of simplicity in biological responses when comparing reptiles to mammals. It is my opinion that Horned Lizards DID NOT evolve an immunity or ability to "detoxify" Pogo venom. Pogos instead adapted their venom to defend primarily against seed foraging mammals who steal their seed stores.

Reptiles, and the Horned Lizard in particular, just so happen to be less affected by the venom, due to their biological makeup. They are simpler creatures when it comes to nervous system, stimuli, and responses to everything from poison to radiation. In lab tests, Horned Lizards were not the only one's to display what could be perceived as a "resistance" to Pogo venom. The venom was also found to be over 200 times less effective against spiny lizards, than against mammals. LD50 for rodent was .12mg/kg, whereas for Sceloporus it was 28mg/kg.

Formic acid is the simplest carboxylic acid, is highly miscible, and easily metabolized. It is a natural antibiotic and building block of more complex protein chains. It is contained in harvester ants through uptake of plant matter in their diet, as formic acid is found commonly in plant matter as a direct result of photosynthesis of CO2. These are "harvester" ants after all, so presence of formic acid in harvester ants should not be such as stretch for so many people to accept, as I have seen. There seems to be a culture going around, of trying to discount the importance of formic acid or other ant constituents, and/or barring that, to question it's very presence in harvester ants, as if it's "magic".

It seems to be a trend amongst people who support alternative ( read non-ant ) diets.

Pogonomyrmex venom also contains phospholipases A2 and B, lipase, hyaluronidase, acid phosphatase.

While I feel that formic acid is an important constituent of harvester ants for antibiotic, antiparasitic, and cell repair; having carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen atoms in the chain also tends to lend consideration of formic acid as a free fatty acid. That would make it quite the source of lean fuel for a Horned Lizard.

Other important sources of lean fuel are also derived from the plant based ( primarily seed ) diet of the harvester ants. Albuminoid storage proteins from seed matter provide a great deal of energy at low metabolic cost.

"Storage proteins are large molecular-weight proteins associated with metamorphosis and reproduction in numerous insect species" (Telfer and Kunkel 1991; Wheeler and Martinez 1995; Seo et al. 1998; Pan and Telfer 1999, 2001).

Sounds pretty nutritious to me if it's that important to ants.

To answer the specific question of the original poster, carpenter ants do not sting, though they have a poison gland in the gaster, which contains formic acid.

Ant bodies are largely undigested because the Horned Lizard is efficient the way it is, and only digests what it needs, by washing the miscible nutrient components from the soft gaster of the ant ( where the nutrients are ), without the need to digest the bodies.

Crickets are largely digested in the process, but this does not mean that digestion is more efficient or healthy. People do not understand this, and too often mistake that just because the cricket is "more" digested, it must be "better". This is incorrect.

When fed ants, the HL passes them before the process of breakdown on chitin really starts. With crickets, that digestive process is slowed and the chitin is broken down. Chitin is a polysaccharide, and essentially considered as a sugar upon metabolism. It slows digestion, and the cricket has a much higher unhealthy triglyceride content to be used as a frequent feeder for HLs, unless you want an early death from fatty liver disease or pancreatitis ( hypertriglyceridemia ).

In summary, the importance of harvester ants, and their nutrients, is neither magic nor mystery; and neither can simple prey preference tests alone establish that other more convenient items are better offerings for Horned Lizards than their natural staple prey item- harvester ants.

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www.youtube.com/user/PhrynosomaTexas
Wichita Falls Reptile Rescue
Harvester Ants

fireside3 Jul 13, 2008 02:02 AM

>>Lights are two Lumichrome bulbs with a CRI of 98 and a temperature of 6700K, and a ZooMed 10.0 UVB bulb at the basking end. I find that the lizards close their eyes if the UV bulb is left on too long, so that bulb runs only a few hours at a time, a few days each week.
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www.groups.yahoo.com/group/HornedLizards
www.youtube.com/user/PhrynosomaTexas
Wichita Falls Reptile Rescue
Harvester Ants

fireside3 Jul 13, 2008 02:34 AM

>>"Lights are two Lumichrome bulbs with a CRI of 98 and a temperature of 6700K, and a ZooMed 10.0 UVB bulb at the basking end. I find that the lizards close their eyes if the UV bulb is left on too long, so that bulb runs only a few hours at a time, a few days each week."

I meant to add here, that the reason your HLs may be closing their eyes, is due to photokerato-conjunctivitis, caused by near UVC transmissions from your Zoo Med 10.0. Tubes are crap in my opinion, and inferior in useful UVB transmission, with many new out of the box tested as only producing 3-13mW/cm2 @ 12". That's pretty useless. You'd be better off setting them next to a window.

This particular Zoo Med and the R-Zilla version are not getting good reviews right now from experienced herp keepers and those who know the UVB lighting industry. Changing to new phosphor coatings by Zoo Med is causing deadly near UVC wavelengths to escape the tube. These are the wavelengths that sterilizations lamps use in barber shops to kill things on combs and clippers. Your lizards could end up blind at the least, or worse, die of burns from harmful UV radiation exposure.

You need to read this:
www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor.htm

Then trash the Zoo Med and buy a Mega-Ray instead. Anything that you could find on a shelf in Petco is going to be junk as far as UV lighting is concerned. If you have to buy one off the shelf though like Joe six-pack does, then get a mercury vapor flood, or at least a linear tube...not a compact coil or compact linear. They're dangerous. These manufacturers are trying to put more UVB output into a smaller package to suit consumers who don't understand tubes are inferior to begin with, and this is costing many herps their eyesight, and their lives.

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www.groups.yahoo.com/group/HornedLizards
www.youtube.com/user/PhrynosomaTexas
Wichita Falls Reptile Rescue
Harvester Ants

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