Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My pets usually live to the longer end of their documented lifespans; so loosing my Gold Dust Day Gecko so young is kind of troubling me. I'd like to figure it out if I can so, if I made any husbandry mistakes, I don't make them in the future. Any help offered in figuring out why she died would be really appreciated!

Her symptoms: One day she was moving fine, and eating, like she had been for the past 2 years I had her- the next day I found her hanging from a basking branch by her front legs- without the strength to pull herself up. She normally darts if I get too close to her, but she let me just pick her up and I didn't even have to grasp her to keep her on my palm. She seemed to have no strength in her limbs. She would kind of fall over to one side when I would set her down and when she tried to climb it's like her legs couldn't hold her weight up. Her head looked like it would twitch a little from time to time. I saw her "yawning" a few times, something I had never seen her do before. The next day she could barely move at all and was dead by 4:00. After she had died I noticed one of her cheek pouches was squishy, while the other was rock hard. That did not seem normal to me. She seemed to have a good weight on her, was active and alert up until those 2 days (but always fairly shy), and had shed just a week before she died. I noticed no outward signs of poor health; like no mites, no runny nose or eyes (eyes seemed bright), her mouth color was a nice pink, and no visible vent problems.

I got her from a pet store when she was probably around a year old. (She was in with a male and already had eggs in her, I'm not a 100% but I read they reach sexual maturity at about a year.) I had her in a 20highx18widex12deep screen cage with a rescued female Green Anole and male Peacock Day Gecko. Before I got the peacockDG, there had once been a rescued, blind, Cuyban/Brown/Bahama Anole in there too (Although blind from an animal attack, he lived with me for 7 years!) There was never any fighting, they would bask and sleep near each other, they seemed very comfortable with each other's presence (or I would have separated them.) It has a incandescent light for extra warmth and a compact fluorescent: Arcadia that advertises 7% UVB output- this was only about 4 inches from a warm basking spot and was over screen, not glass. I replaced it every 6 months. The lights were on a timer and the room had ample natural light, but not direct sunlight. The warmest spot they had easy access too was 100f. There were a lot of basking gradient's in warmth, they liked sitting on the fern more than the basking branches. The bottom of the cage was around room temp (72f) The cage has organic potting soil, some aquarium gravel under that (so the water drained better and to clog up any areas crickets might want to hide in), a little organic (I think it was cypress) mulch, a little sphagnum moss, non-toxic orchard branch's (the kind you get for tropical birds that might chew on them, I like them because they come with metal cage attachments) and non toxic live plants: Starting last year there was a broad leafed fern they liked sitting on and hiding in, some z-plants (what ever they're called) and some sort of common Bromeliad thing, I can't remember exactly what they're called. There had been other plants at other times, like palms, but were replaced as I found one's that thrived better.

I misted twice, sometimes 3 times, a day. There was standing water in one of the plants and a small (sushi dipping) bowl. Every 3 days I would replace the Gerber's organic baby food- peach, because that's when it would dry out (it never molded) Even if the lizards didn't want it all the time, it kept any missed crickets from being tempted to chew on the lizards. They got crickets that were not big enough to have wings, but not small like pin heads. I'd put a few in once a week, I kind of had figured out how many would get eaten over time. They were originally dusted with Rep-Cal Calcium with Vit.D3 and occasionally Rep-Cal's multi vitamins and gut loaded with some Flukers cricket food stuff- but earlier this year I switched to gut loading with Sticky Tongue Farms Vit-All; because it was recommended to me by a herp breeder. I started dusting with Sticky Tongue's Miner-All. (The crickets got that Flukers water cube/gel stuff, not standing water) I did see an improvement in color with all my reptiles. A lot of time the crickets would get a lot of the dusting off before they were eaten. I think the humidity might be low for her. It was around 40-50% most of the time, -it would increase when I misted, but would also dry quickly because I do not live in a humid place. I did not want to use glass here because mold in my area goes so crazy if it gets the chance. Screen cages seem to prevent it, but, of course, keep the humidity from being up.

Here is a picture of her from a few moths ago, her color was not that great in the first picture here.
http://www.melorasworld.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/10002/pixie.jpg
http://www.melorasworld.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/10002/pixie2.jpg
This is what their cage looks like:
http://www.melorasworld.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/10002/cage1.jpg
http://www.melorasworld.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/10002/cage2.jpg
http://www.melorasworld.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/10002/paon1.jpg

Any ideas anyone? I hope I covered everything, if not, just ask and I'll see if I can be more clear.

The animal on the pic is overfed and has too strongly pronounced calcium sacs. Thus it might have been also oversupplemented and thus died from kidney or liver failure.
Just a guess. It is not possible to say sth really helpful just from a post without having seen the setup or the animal personally.

Ingo

Holy crap. That actually makes A LOT of sense and isn't something I had thought of. Like: The newer stuff I had been dusting with has, supposedly, a lot more in it, and the sacks on her side had gotten larger- like maybe she wasn't processing it- I was using the same amount as I was with my old stuff, which was now probably too much... I mean, I can't be 100% on the cause either, but it was exactly like her body was shutting down & that really makes so much sense to me in regards to this case. >_< Thank you, -thank you very much. I'm cutting back on that with all my lizards now.

the twitching and the limpness sounds like calcium deficiency, but by the looks of the pics thats probably not the case. but they do develop eggs, even when they are by themselves. how long was that peacock day gecko with her. day geckos are the most territorial little devils. i had two adult females in a quarentine tank that was like two gal. they were fine, but i separated them for a while. I later put them back together in a well set up ten gal before introducing a male and with in two days the one female was dead. that gecko looked pretty old though. was she significantly smaller when you got her? she could have just been real old and had some kind of blockage with her eggs.

I think the other poster hit the nail on the head with this. It would also kind of make sense (to me) that, with the limpness and twitching, it was because her body was shutting down- she was showing signs of deficiency because her body got overloaded and thus couldn't process it anymore. (She only was twitching & limp the day before she died anyway. I have a video of her the day before that and she was moving and acting fine I think the supplements on that day's feeding is what did it)

There wasn't aggression. In fact they would all hang out next to each other to bask and hide (even though they had a choice of spots) and they were together for quite a while. It's why I had a female gold dust and a male peacock. To hopefully avoid breeding aggression, or same sex, issues. I also never separate tank mates because long ago, I found, like you seem to have, that reintroduction (esp. into a new environment) might as well be like a first introduction. I knew aggression was still a possibility but I watched out for it and there was never a problem. Plus, their skin and "scales" are so delicate, it was obvious that no one had damaged her in any way.

She didn't have eggs in her, she only produced twice after I got her (She had eggs in her when I got her, she was in with a male golddust at the store.) Eggs were pretty easy to see when they were in there. She laid the pair of eggs she had, both of those times, just fine. There also didn't feel like there was any sort of blockage in her after she died.

i had a few different day geckos/ leaf tail geckos (adults) that died in a similar fashion. But there cases were definitely due to calcium deficiency. Although healthy, as far as a lot of meat on the bones, their bones turned to jelly and their other organ systems started to shut down. I also had a female Henkels leaftail that was "too" healthy, layed a lot of eggs, and got burnt out due to some sort of egg/ cricket ovipositor blockage. It s usually tougher to diagnose females, especially females that do not have a mate. My female breeder gold dust is wild caught and had extremely large calcium sacs. After i separated her from the male they got huge (i ll try to snap a few shots of her when i get a chance). I dont think the excess calcium would be detrimental to their health because they have an efficient storage system set up. The reason why they absorb calcium so efficiently is because of the rate that this species produces eggs. My female was producing two eggs every two weeks for over a year. She stopped for around a month. i had to separate her from the male. i was keeping tract of the amount of food i fed her and the amount of eggs she was producing and it was insane to see how efficient these animals are. i tried to slow her reproduction down by decreasing her food and it did not work.

Yes, as the other poster mentioned, day gecko do develop MBD pretty easily. It would seem that when she has gotten worst conincide with when you switch your supplement. Not all supplement are create equal. Some have the wrong ratio of minerals and vitamins, and some do not have what they say they have on the label. I'd look into a better supplement if I were you because I think your gecko develop MBD from the new supplement. Calcium Plus develop by Allen Repashy is a good supplement.

Thanks all for the wealth of info, I really appreciate it- About the breeding one too, and how they process stuff well, that kind of info is always great to know.

One of the dogs I grew up with had kidney failure and, when the first responder said over supplementation, it really struck me as dead on because of how I remember that affecting my dog. Basically it seems like when you get overloaded with something it can end up looking like you were under supplemented when you're dying, and it hits really quickly, because your body stops being able to function and process stuff. If it had been a slower process, and had it felt like her bones had been weak or misshapen, I might lean more towards under supplementation and MBD, but I just keep thinking of that dog. She did only have the twitches and weakness that one day before she died, which strikes me as a little odd for MBD (I don't know if that is odd though, maybe that's normal) - So, even though I'll never know for sure, I just have this feeling of that being it. I could also be just as wrong Truth of the matter is: I'm just going to make sure I keep track of how much supplement they're getting and make sure, either way, it's more on the mark of the proper ratio and amount for each species.

Thanks again everyone :3

That would be odd. MBD develops gradually over a period of time, and not a sudden onset like that--but then again, it can be expressed as overly plump looking limbs as the bones continually fracture and are replaced with fibrous connective tissue.

Do you have a veterinary college nearby that might do necropsies?

Such a shame, they are so pretty always sad when something happens. But we do learn things ( hopefully) that help later when we try again.

Sorry for your lose ! Best wishes in the future
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PHEve / Eve

Thank you so much. Yeah, I feel really bad for what happened but- you are also right, now that I'm pretty sure I know what went wrong I will never make the same mistake again and hopefully other animals will gain even more benefit from the sad experience

Thanks