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I collected a very large adult female coachwhip from north FL off the i75 corridor. All the coachwhips I have seen in the past had a solid black head that faded to a tan color near the tail. This female lacked all black. She is tan from head to tail. I personally have never seen another one like her. I have checked with other herpers, I know, that are familiar with the snakes of that area, and no others have seen such a snake. I am just posing a question to the open market, hoping to ascertain how abnormal this animal really is. Has anyone ever came across coachwhips from that general area that lack all the black pigments? Also, she dropped 23 eggs that should be hatching soon. Since the neonate coaches do not show the same coloring as the adults, would it be possible to determine if the babies will also show the Hypo phase as adults? (PS, I have not received clearance from the hematological council to label them as "hypo" so we can also substitute "pastel" or "uni-color" in place of Hypo and I am fine with that.)

Chuck Hurd
www.ChuckHurd.com
423.580.7513 (txt capable)

Do you think you can post a picture?

Masticophis are highly variable snakes and can be anywhere from almost solid black to almost solid tan. Nothing real special unless your breeding for that trait. I personaly prefer the look of a nice bi-color eastern over just about any other coachwhip.
Nate

I personally don't find the florida coachwhips all that attractive. What I will give the coachwhips out of florida is size, I've seen some monsters out of that area.

My personal favorite for an eastern coachwhip are the ones that come out of southern missouri and arkansas. Most of them are almost all black, with a smattering of red right at the end of the tail. Just gorgeous.

I've also seen some very pretty eastern coachwhips out of texas ranging from a reddish color to mostly black with some tan towards the end. Very pretty.

As far as just straight gorgeous goes though, it's very hard to beat a west texas red, and I'm talking RED, screaming RED coachwhip.

Kevin

Kevin,

You and I seem to have similar tastes in Coachwhips, although I have to say that the Easterns with black heads and tan/grey bodies are pretty sharp. Pretty sure this is what Nate is calling the Bicolor. I'm not completely sure where this phenotype is found although I know at least part of their range is in Florida. I had one small specimen that I donated to a zoo looking for one. Never did find out where it was collected and never kept them again.

My favorites over the years were the true Red Westerns (only had two females). I think if more people could see these as adults in person they would be very popular.

I also had a true M. f. piceus but liked the red westerns better.

I've also seen some very pretty eastern coachwhips out of texas ranging from a reddish color to mostly black with some tan towards the end. Very pretty.

Okay you've lost me here. I had one snake that fit this description. I purchased it from Glades as a Western and was told it came from east Texas. Are you saying these are Easterns?

My personal favorite for an eastern coachwhip are the ones that come out of southern missouri and arkansas. Most of them are almost all black, with a smattering of red right at the end of the tail. Just gorgeous.

I have never seen one of these in person much less kept one, but from the few pictures I have seen I have to say that could easily become my favorites.

One other coachwhip I really like is a type of western that develops a very wide banding pattern, alternating rusty brown and light tan. I had two of these (both males, of course) that were said to come from Oklahoma. Years later I met a herper from Oklahoma and he had several pictures taken in the field that matched what I had kept.
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Currently keeping:

6.10 Gonyosoma oxycephala (Javan, mixed colors)

1.1 Philodryas baroni

1.0 Rhodesian Ridgeback

Coachwhips in Georgia alone vary greatly. I had one from Rhine County that was white with just a few flecks of tan and pink. I kept one of her offspring that ended up just being typical. I've also had one from Georgia that was almost all black with a red stomach and tail. I like them all....the meaner the better.

Steph

Cingulum are also quite something. These are the sonoran coachwhips out of Arizona, they can alternate banding between pink and baige, and I have one right now that alternates bright red and tan, it's a beautiful animal, also completely tame, she's never even offered to bite.

I was always under the assumption that the coachwhips from eastern and south texas were eastern coachwhips. I saw one on the Cravens website that was a textbook eastern, from south texas, it was mostly black with tan towards the end of the tail.

Some of the coolest looking easterns are on the snakes of arkansas website. Just go to the gallery and look at the coachwhip pictures, some will make you DROOL.

I like piceus as well, but so far I've found them to be more high maintenance than larger coachwhips. They tend to like smaller meals, higher temperatures, and seem much more nervous than most coachwhips.

BTW, can anyone post a picture of an all-black eastern? I have yet to see one that was completely black, though I have seen a picues that was all black.

Kevin

she had a few faint dots but no saturated black at all.

np

Not in the same area, but yes I've seen this before. There is a place in FL that nearly all of them there are 'bleached', meaning tan from head to tail. I've also see one in NM like that. Different subsp. I know. But I've seen them before. Cool though.