Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have 7 American Toads living in a very large enclosure together, I've had them for an incredibly long time and they're always been very healthy. ...A day ago I put in their crickets to feed them, and I've checked on them since then and they were all fine...but tonight I checked in and 2 of them had died and the other 5 looked like they were just barely clinging to life....

Right now they're soaking in some lukewarm water, which seems to be perking a few of them up a little...

Do you think it could have been a bad batch of crickets? Or what I was feeding them this time? I was feeding them just a grain based pellet feed...Or, we've recently been invaded with lady bugs...although the toad enclosure has a tight screen lid, do you think maybe some got in and thats what did it? I've heard that lady bugs are no good for reptiles...

I just don't know what could have happened and it's really got me going crazy, I'm so distraught over losing 2 and I'm desperately trying to save the others...

Please let me know if you know anything that could help save the others, or what might have caused this...

Thanks...

Becky
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--SneakySnakesINC--

1.0 Sonoran Gopher Snake(Oshy)
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python (Taboo)
1.0 Macklot's Python (Pixel)
0.1 Ball Python (Nagini)
0.1 Yellow Rat Snake (Ember) (For Sale)
1.0 Albino Black Rat Snake (Vegas)
1.0 Smooth Earth Snake (Little Zuni)
1.0 Citrus X red phase bearded dragon (Twyman)
1.1 Oriental Fire Bellied Toads (Spott and Dott)
2.5 American Toads (Kirk, Marcus, Bertha, Ethel, Lucy, Olga, Starlet)
0.1 Red Foot Tortoise (Marzipan)
2.0 Equines (Sherlock the draft and Cleatis the donkey)
4.0 Felines (Caesar Ray, Pharoh, Phoenix, Boomer)
1.0 WC boyfriend (Ryan)

Has anything else changed for the colony? A new member, new plant, water change, substrate change, temp or humidity spike, anyone fighting? Was this the first time you fed crix from this batch? Was this the first time you used the gutload? Are the rest of the crickets dying? How old are the toads? I doubt ladybugs would outright kill them. They have a very bitter taste so most herps would avoid them. There could be a lot of things going on, but these questions might give you some things to look into.

If the gutload was spoiled or moldy it may kill the crix too. Was it cricket gutload? Some poultry grain foods contain antibiotics and anti parasite meds that could be bad for the toads.

If the crix are dying they could be diseased or carrying something that made the toads sick.

When you soak the toads you could put a little Pedialyte in the water to give them some dextrose and electrolytes to help them past it.

Thanks for your reply, sorry it's taken so long for me to get back to you.

The other toads made it through, I did what you said with the pedialyte and they have passed a lot of waste and seem to be doing just fine now.

Nothing had changed with the toad colony, and from the questions you asked, I've ruled it down to a bad shipment of crickets...

This was the first time I had fed them this batch of crickets, and NOT the first time I have fed this type of food to crickets...this batch was new, and came from a supplier who I've recently been having other problems with (late shipments, wrong orders etc) so I think perhaps it's time for a supplier change.
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--SneakySnakesINC--

1.0 Sonoran Gopher Snake(Oshy)
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python (Taboo)
1.0 Macklot's Python (Pixel)
0.1 Ball Python (Nagini)
0.1 Yellow Rat Snake (Ember) (For Sale)
1.0 Albino Black Rat Snake (Vegas)
1.0 Smooth Earth Snake (Little Zuni)
1.0 Citrus X red phase bearded dragon (Twyman)
1.1 Oriental Fire Bellied Toads (Spott and Dott)
2.5 American Toads (Kirk, Marcus, Bertha, Ethel, Lucy, Olga, Starlet)
0.1 Red Foot Tortoise (Marzipan)
2.0 Equines (Sherlock the draft and Cleatis the donkey)
4.0 Felines (Caesar Ray, Pharoh, Phoenix, Boomer)
1.0 WC boyfriend (Ryan)

thats wierd, Ive never heard of "bad crickets" I get my crickets from all sorts of places, including wild caught. I fed my toads everything from slugs, to unknown grubs, to just about any other bug I have ever found, and never had a problem. that sucks though. sorry you lost a couple.

No offence, but it seems you have not paid adequate attention to your toads, and perhaps made the mistake of thinking that because everything looked ok to you visually, you neglected the minimal requirements for long term survivabilty in captive situations. Although any number of factors has their own degree of blame it is my contetion that your complacencey is the most prevailing argument

And of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. However you have "assumed" that all I did was visually check them and left it at that, when in fact my many checks throughout a day's time do indeed involve opening the cage and finding each toad and checking them over, the same as all my many other animals I have here on my farm.

It isn't very becoming of someone to automatically assume anything about a situation, without asking questions first, especially when you are going to make a claim that someone isn't taking care of their animals.
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--SneakySnakesINC--

1.0 Sonoran Gopher Snake(Oshy)
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python (Taboo)
1.0 Macklot's Python (Pixel)
0.1 Ball Python (Nagini)
0.1 Yellow Rat Snake (Ember) (For Sale)
1.0 Albino Black Rat Snake (Vegas)
1.0 Smooth Earth Snake (Little Zuni)
1.0 Citrus X red phase bearded dragon (Twyman)
1.1 Oriental Fire Bellied Toads (Spott and Dott)
2.5 American Toads (Kirk, Marcus, Bertha, Ethel, Lucy, Olga, Starlet)
0.1 Red Foot Tortoise (Marzipan)
2.0 Equines (Sherlock the draft and Cleatis the donkey)
4.0 Felines (Caesar Ray, Pharoh, Phoenix, Boomer)
1.0 WC boyfriend (Ryan)

Seems out of line to blame someone for the death of their animals without knowing anything about the care she was giving them. There's nothing in her original post that would suggest she just threw crickets in the enclosure once in a while a took a look-see to be sure everyone was still hopping around. I guess you've never had any animals die in your care. You're my new hero.

VB

pets die, you've never lost a pet before? stop being a jerk

Let It GO :

Folks have a way of avoidinig and misplacing the actuall blame for the demise of any of their captives. There are so many other factors, and, easily, though misappropriate, these factors will remain. It is my experience, and, quite obvious to me, that many others fail to recognize their own failures and insist upon transfering the blame elsewhere. It excuses them in their own minds from culpability.

Everyone should remember, that, mistakes in husbandry are at least as important as successes. Help teach others to avoid problems by admitting, at least, the possibility of, an error in judgement or husbandry, explain the parameters, and seek advice with an open mind.

Your captives, your responsibility, your choice, not theirs.

Is this an outdoor pen? That raises two possibilities: biological and chemical.
if ladybugs can get in, so can all kinds of microscopic pathogens, which may have taken a while to build up to dangerous levels, then seemed to hit all at once.
The other possibility is insecticides/weed killers, etc. getting blown in.
The only way to really know would be to get a biopsy done on one of the dead animals. Probably a bit late for that though.
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0.1 1987 Coastal Carpet (Boots)
0.1 2006 Western Hognose (Bebe)
0.1 age unknown Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 2005 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 2006 Northern Diamondback (Queequeg)
1.0 2006 Madagascan Speckled (Sigmund)
1.0 2008 Bull (Winkle)