Reptile & Amphibian Forums

is it safe to put different species of tortisesw in the same enclosure if they are a similar size? i also have a 10x10ft outdoor enclosure, so what is the bare minimum hermans/greek/russsian?other tort indoor enclosure size? also what are some other torts that get about greek/herman/russian sized?

This topic comes around and around...it is controversial. A lot of potential problems, interspecies maladies may be transferred, agression between species and the species don't respond to the body language, some are very agressive and others less so, and some will be cruelly bullied. Russians and Herrmann's both pretty ornery, at least the males. I tried T. marginata and T. graeca briefly, but the marginata just kept harrassing "thrill humping" the graeca...not good. I am against mixing species of tortoises, there may be a few exceptions that work out, but there are lots of reasons to be wary. I also would not like to see hybrids. good luck, I will be curious to hear what others say. Vic Herrick

what i ment was not a permanent enclosure but could different species share an outdoor enclosure for part of the day? it is a very large enclosure, 10x10 ft

Well maybe...but you will find many tortoises, especially males to be keenly aware of what other animals are sharing their space. It only takes moments to have unhealthy exposures to baceria, viruses, etc. For that reason I don't transfer food from one enclosure to another. In fact, having them together briefly often encourages agressive behavior, as if they are together long term, sometimes they will work out a truce, a dominant-subordinate relationship. This is obvious when you introduce a new horsefieldi to an established group, sort of like barn yard chickens...a "pecking order" is established.

Your nice outdoor pen is relatively large compared to many, but is small relative to the natural enviroment. Where/what will a subordinate tortoise do if/when an agressive one goes after it? Again, respectfully, I am reluctant to mix them, and I notice most respected Zoos do not mix either. What say others?

thank you for the input but to answer your question about where to put a tortise that does not wish to play nice we have a smaller enclosure outside to. but if males don't like other males what if i just did another female or would that bring in the risk of hybridnazation

Yes, it would. Mixing species is never a good idea, especially for the hybridization factor. I have a friend who accidentally produced a hermani/marginata hatchling when one of his hermani males escaped into the pen of his marginata females. He knew that the hermani had to be the father because the female was on his restricted list (too small to breed). She produced two eggs, one infertile, the other bearing the hybrid. Now, this hybrid seems in fine condition, however, little is known of such animals, especially their ability to reproduce, as well as their ability to affect reproduction in later generations. How will they differ from their parents behaviorally speaking? Is such integration necessarily something to be encouraged in the hobby? Are we attempting to preserve the wild bloodline, or are we attempting to forge our own captive one? These questions bear heavy on the mind of responsible tortoise breeders, and as many species in the wild may go extinct and certainly many local varieties may one day disappear, it is vital to preserve these animals genes as they evolved, or so I feel.

Mixing species is also a bad idea for the reasons Vic mentioned earlier (i.e. disease, behavioral incompatibility, habitat incompatibility, etc.).

T.G.

I think Vic has done a remarkable job of politely answering your question and his answer is not to mix them. As he stated, their is the aggression factor and the hybridization factor. Even if you worked those factors out, you may still be exposing your mixed animals to parasites they are not accustomed to and could be potentially deadly. Also respiratory diseases. The general rule of thumb, DONT MIX SPECIES. Even a few hours together could expose each other to urine and feces, mucous secretions, etc. that harbor parasites, bacteria, viruses that they are not accustomed to. This is more prevelant in wild caught imported animals such as your rescues.