Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I am having a custom enclosure built from my Moroccan Uro. She's only a baby now (6 months old), but I want something that will last her life time (figuring she'll top off at 18 inches at most).

Length dimension will be 5 feet.
Depth will be 3 feet.

The only thing I'm struggling with is in terms of dimensions is the height.

1. Assuming the heat lamps will be on the OUTSIDE top, how how should the tank be? Is 18 inches to high from top to bottom?

2. Regarding lamps--how many do I need for an enclosure of this size, and what wattage? Note that the tank will be in my loft where it never gets below 78 degrees, so I don't have need for night time heat. I am currently using a single 100 watt mega ray for my much smaller tank.

For height you have to consider how much substrate you will be using. If you are keeping your heat lamps outside of the enclosure, then low would be best so that the animal could easily get close to the heat source to bask.

Oh, and as for the lamp wattage, you are going to have to experiment and see what will work for your particular situation. There are no set rules as to which wattage will work well. I would say try keeping the bulb you are using and see how that works out, then adjust accordingly.

Personally, I would go with 24" high and mount the lights inside the enclosure so there is nothing obstructing the UVB from getting to my animals. If you go with 24" you can get a MVB (MegaRay or PowerSun) and still have plenty of space between the bulb and the low hide / basking area.

Okay-so, generally, in a 24 inch high enclosure, how far is the bulb from the bottom of the enclosure (not taking into account substrate, low/high places. For the sake of argument, let's assume an empty enclosure.

If you have a MegaRay or other MVB, the recommended distance for the 100w bulb is 12" from the basking spot, for the 160w bulb, its 18" from the basking spot. You will probably need to purchase both bulbs, experiment with them and basking spot heights. I have found the best thing to use for basking spots is Slate, it retains heat very well, and if you elevate it on two pavers, it can double as a low hide for the Uro.

I hope that answers your question.

Just a quick heads up if your building your own enclosure. A large variety of wood is not safe to use for the excessively high temperatures that a Uro requires. This leaves you with basically 2 choices for building material, oak and formaldehyde free melamine.

Personally, I don't think in the long run the melamine will hold up. I have read a few people in the past had their melamine start to sag a bit, and I would rather build once then have to repair/replace anything down the road. I was in Lowes yesterday, a 4x8' sheet of 3/4" Oak ply is $48. I am still trying to locate a high quality 1/2" Oak ply near me, as 3/4" is a bit heavy. I am building a stacked enclosure, 6'x27"x24" so with all the wood, glass, etc necessary, I figure the entire 2 enclosures will cost around $300-$350.

I would also recommend a good sealer for the inside as well, one that was recommended to me by another forum member is called acrylacq (seems to only be available online) but it seems to be safe for the temperatures required for Uro's.

The most important thing is to research anything you plan on using during construction of the enclosure to be sure it will not emit any toxins that may harm the Uro.

If you have any question feel free to ask, I am in the process of designing and collecting materials to build mine in the next few months.

Thanks so much for the additional info!

I was leaning toward Oak Ply. I was looking at Birch Ply as well. It's a little cheaper (around $30 for a 4 x 8 sheet versus $48 for the Oak Ply as you mentioned). However, now that you've mentioned that Oak is better, that seals that decision. Oak Ply it is! I also was not able to find 1/2 Oak Ply in either Home Depot or Lowes. I think a specialty lumber place like 84 Lumber would be a better bet.

I am also building a nice cabinet for it, so this is going to be a nice piece of furniture.

Regarding the cage lining. I heard there exists a flexible roll of sheeting that is a PVC sheet with an adhesive background. This can easily be cut and applied to the insides of the enclosure.

I am actually roughly following plans that I purchased from this place:

http://www.reptile-cage-plans.com/

As mentioned in my original post, I am planning on the lights sitting on top, outside of the enclosure (however, the holes for the lights will have no obstructions--no screening, etc.).

So, questions are:

1. Since the top and bottom will not be visible from the outside, is it okay to use a cheaper 3/4" plywood for these pieces, or should I use the Oak Plywood for the entire thing? This is a purely aesthetical question. My initial reason for using Oak Ply was just because it would look better. I will surely use Oak Ply for all pieces if it is better for my Uro.

2. Do you have any insight into what the proper height of the enclosure should be given that the lights will be sitting on the top of the enclosure? I see your height will be 24 inches, but I'm assuming your installing the lights inside because you're building a stacked enclosure.

3. Have you ever heard of the flexible PVC sheeting? Apparently, they sell it here: http://www.contactbrand.com/, but I haven't been able to find it on their website.

4. I'm curious how you came up with the depth measurement of 27". It seems like an odd number. I have been struggling a bit with the depth myself. I think I've settled on 2.5 feet (30", however, I initially was leaning toward 24", only because this seems to be some kind of standard, but since I'm building this thing custom, I figured I can make it any depth I want. I was originally going to make it 5 feet wide, but decided on 6 feet.

I went with a 27" width, as some have mentioned 30" is tough to reach to the back to clean. I wanted more then 24", but if 30" was going to be a pain in the neck to clean, I figured split the difference, 27".

Mounting lights on the top may be very tricky, as if you cut a hole for a bulb, and it needs to be moved, you can't undo the cut for the hole. You may want to consider putting your bulbs on the inside. I also suggest using the oak for the entire thing, other then some type of molding around the outside if you choose to use it. Any piece that has contact with the inside of the enclosure (front, back, sides, top and bottom) should probably ALL be oak due to temperatures.

I spoke to the manager at lowes earlier, he can order 1/2" oak ply, but it needs to be ordered by the pallet (50 sheets) and I very much do NOT need 50 sheets heh. I actually need 5, maybe 6 in case I mess up a cut somewhere.

You could definitely use another type of lower cost wood to build your stand out of, as it wont be getting any heat directed onto it. I am also not sure of the pvc material you mentioned, but look into it and see if it can withstand high temps without emitting toxins.

Also, what type of substrate did you plan on using? It may help you decide what to do on the bottom of the enclosure to avoid moisture issues or mold from old substrate

Regarding 3/4" versus 1/2", are you going with 1/2" just because of the weight issue? You said you were stacking cages, so I assume you would want to reduce the weight of the cages as much as possible. However, I am going with 3/4" because I think it'll be more sturdy. I don't plan on stacking enclosures, and once it's in place, I don't plan on moving it for years (until or unless I move).

Regarding the depth-so-you-can-clean issue--I was thinking about creating a removable floor tray type of thing so that I can easily remove it when necessary to clean.

In regards to the lights--I'm figuring on two meg rays (one 100 watt, the other 160 watt) for my 6 foot wide enclosure. Is this correct? Also, roughly where would they be placed? At either end? At what width apart? Also, is there any need for a long strip florescent light?

My reason for placing them outside the enclosure is purely aesthetics. I want them out of the way (which I can easily do, and plan on doing with a canopy top above the enclosure). When I look inside the enclosure, I want it to look as natural as possible, so I dislike seeing lights inside the enclosure. That's my only reason.

In regards to substrate: My plan was to use a combination. Since my Uro is still a baby (7 months old), I am still using thin reptile carpet. In the new enclosure since it's going to be so nice and big, I figured I could use a combination of millet and the carpet. Your thoughts on that?

I would avoid the reptile carpet, Uro's can get long nails and it could get stuck in the carpet. I would go with half tile half paper towel for now, then you can replace the paper towel half with sand or millet later.

as for thickness, 1/2" is fine, there is a user on another forum with enclosures stacked 3 high using all 1/2" oak ply.

Im not so sure you would want a sliding floor, it will cause more of a mess with loose substrate, and the weight would be excessive if it slides out too far. I think simpler would be better.

As for lights in/out.. what you could do is similar to what im doing inside. The total height is 24", however the glass will only be 16-18" in height. So you can have a few inches blocking the view of the lights. You could always go taller and mount the lights inside and have the bulb itself blocked by the front wood, thus not seeing the physical light.

You will have to mess with the temps.. I couldnt tell you for certain, but I think the 160w may be overpowering. Right now my 160w sits ~16.5" above the basking surface (glass tank) and gets the slate to 108F by itself. You will have to mess with bulbs to obtain proper temps.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by, "tile"?

Regarding the glass--a 6 foot width of glass pane seems pretty large. Is it better/safer to use plexiglass do you think?

natural slate is best.. holds heat very well, can be used to make hides with as well. and doesnt emit toxins. Also, glass will be better in 2 parts. Im doing 2 sliding doors, 18"x36" reaonably cheap too. fairly standard size or you can get a piece cut at lowes for $14 with the first cut free (36x24" just get it cut down to 18"

What about vents? Are you planning on putting in any vents? If so, where? On the sides, or on the top?

I'm not a big fan of sliding doors for two reasons:

1. The view is slightly obstructed since the glass is not in one piece

2. More importantly: It's difficult to get things in and out of the cage. Would rather be able to open up the entire width of the front of the cage.

Have you seen custom enclosures with a full six foot pane of glass (it would actually be slightly less than 6 feet because the glass will sit in frame). The other option is plexiglass, but I think that discolors over time from the UVB.

vents will be on the sides as well as the top to allow excess heat to escape. Also, plexiglass scratches super easy and will need replacement constantly due to the Uro's nails scratching it up. I would not suggest making a 6' glass door on front for 2 reasons:
a) weight
b) you are giving the Uro a large opening to run at if you startle it, and a fall from that height could be very very bad. You want to be able to ensure it wont find a place to jump from. Safety first.

Okay. Maybe I'll keep the idea of the 6 foot front door that swings down, but instead of the single pane of 6 foot glass inside that door frame, I'll have 2 sliding glass panes inside the door frame. So, I get the best of both worlds--easy access with the sliding windows on a daily basis for putting in food, etc., and on the rare occassions that I need to fully open the door (like when cleaning at which time she would be out of the cage anyway), I can fully swing open the door.

How sure you are you about the Acrylacq?

On this website:

http://www.fwhorch.net/acrylacq.html

It says:

Do not subject coating to temperature extremes.

I have spoken with another forum member who discussed the product directly for this application with the MFG. Also note that it says:
"Very low VOC content. Contains no formaldehyde."
This is probably the most important thing to look at in a sealer, as well as the wood. Being formaldehyde free is key to keeping the Uro healthy, which is why certain types of malamine are unsafe, while some mfg's made formaldehyde free malamine.

Also, the sealer won't directly be getting any heat from your basking bulbs, as you will have some kind of substrate between the wood and the bulb, I don't imagine the wood to get beyond the recommended temperatures for the acrylacq with an inch of sand or millet or even slate absorbing all the heat.

What about the inside sides and top of the enclosure? These will be exposed and not protected by substrate.

Yes, but these will also not receive directed heat. Only ambient heat will reach the sides/top, which will be below 100F. I would think that even in the more southern states where temperatures reach above 100F, these products are used and tested. I would imagine "excessive" temperatures to be probably 115F or greater (just my opinion) so I would assume that an ambient temp in a portion of the cage being 95F ambient is no issue, especially being the bulbs are not facing the sides or top.