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This question is for anyone who has bred chameleons. I hatched out a few different clutches of panther chameleons. Many of them grew without incident and alreqdy have been placed in new homes. However, i have had about a half dozen out of 50 something chams turn up with short tongue extension. One was a baby only two weeks maybe out of the egg. 4 sub adults and a very large adult 10 plus inches!Dont know how I could have missed that one into adulthood! They all had the same father but different mothers. Here are some things I was thinking it could be but really would love to hear if anyone had solid evidence of what is going on.
One I thought it could be nutritional but does not make sense to me that such a very small percentage would have this issue when all 50 or so were eating the same food including adults and moms who sprang back without problem after the stress of egg laying. Besides, I am a bug enthusiast and breed many different prey items for my chams,variety not an issue and I use the ad cham gutload plus my own ingredients after much research on nutrition.NeVER had this issue with adults in my care.
Second, I was thinking genetic. Again, wouldnt think that such a small percentage would have this issue. The half dozen or so that turned up with the issue were from different mothers so if it was a genetic issue would have to be from dad. I have NEVER heard of anyone having this issue and linking it to a genetic issue but that is why I am writing this.
Thirdly and this is my theory that I think is most likely the case is that the chams being in the same cage and yes I do have chams in the same enclosures as I work to expand are shooting at the same prey, making contact with each others tongue and somehow breaking their hyphoid bone or spraining something so that they are unable to shoot properly.
I dont know what is going on so anyone who has ever dealt with this issue please clue me in.
thanks!

I guess I need some clarification. When you say "short tongue extension" are you saying that the affected chams:

a) have unusually short tongue musculature? (physical defect)
b) they can't or won't try extending them? (injury)
c) when they do try to extend them they can't hit anything (aim)?
d) they can't draw the prey back to their mouth effectively (tongue not sticky)?

The whole cham tongue shooting thing is complicated...eyesight and tongue coordination, the right muscle tone and control, correct hydration to keep the glands on the tip moist so prey sticks to it, eagerness, frustration, and experience. To figure out exactly what the problem is, you'd need to rule out each of these factors. Do these questions help you focus in on the problem?

Definitely a. What I dont know is if this was an injury of sorts, or a genetic defect that I failed to notice initially as I had many babies, or a nutritional issue that is only effecting a small amount. wish I knew more of the mechanics of how the tongue works. I have the basic idea but you would think if it was a muscular issue the tongue would lose its ability to shoot and actually hang out of its mouth. It almost seems the tongue is too short as it only extends past the tip of their snout. In the wild they would quickly perish but in captivity no problem running over to the corner of the cage and grabbing the excess of food always available to them so they easily thrive and these "defected" chams are doing very well. If I knew for sure it was a genetic thing I would not want to perpetuate this gene but according to another very large breeder I talked to who has seen it all it is not uncommon to have genetic flaws in a clutch that does not present itself in the parents and only effects a small percentage of the clutch. You just dont know but my goal is to thrive for excellence in my breeding stock.

I am not sure you could determine if the tongue itself is deformed or "too short". The tongue is made up of extremely elastic muscle fiber making it difficult to figure out whether it is actually too short (simple defect) or that the muscle isn't stretching correctly. That could lead in to all sorts of nutritional problems (poor muscle formation due to deficiencies), genetic problems (a percentage of any clutch of babies won't be perfect and won't survive), or behavioral problems (not needing to use it to the full extent). I don't know if it will help, but there is a vet article on "tongue problems" on the ADCHAM website if I remember correctly.

Could be any number of reasons for the tongue issues.

When did it start in each of them?

How did you incubate the eggs? What was the source of heat?

There is no way of telling when it started because at some point I had many,many chams. I cant commit to saying I observed each individual cham but believe me when i say that I probably did as I am enthralled by them and thrive for the best care possible. I either missed them if they had the issue or the issue started at some point during their development. I had a huge 10 inch adult male that was in a group of about 12 that were just big from the start,grew at a rapid rate and maxed out at a very large size.In this particular group I noticed a male with the tongue issue at his large 10 inch size and my suspicion is that he developed the issue at some point and did not have it out of the egg as I always had these extra large guys separated into smaller groups and they were easy to observe. My theory is that they are injuring themselves. How? well that im not positive of but I think it could be due to shooting at the same prey and connecting tongues as I have seen them do that. One will retract and will pull the others tongue with the retracted tongue. I have seen the retracted tongue cham pull the whole other cham with him and start to chew on whatever is on the tip of his tongue which includes the other chams face! A few scratches is not a big deal but I suspect this could injure another chams tongue if they connect tongues and one retracts the other tongue forcefully. (That whole muscle system you spoke of carlton) In any case I am going to start with new breeding stock and see if the same issues arise and compare to the genetics of these I have spoke of.(Not the ones with the actual tongue issue but clutch mates that are normal) I have started yet another expansion of my cham rooms but no matter how much room a cham has if they are shooting at the same prey issues can arise. I have two of the chams with tongue issue and I am going to see if they ever get over their problem, however, I have heard this is rarely the case. My other holdbacks are all separated out into individual cages and I suspect they will not have any "tongue issues' that will develop. I dont think it is a nutritional thing as I have some panther chams going on 5 years old(not breeders) and a mellers whos about 2 years. Besides you would think if it was nutritional more then 6 out of 50 something cham babies would develop similar issues but isf there is anything i have learned about rearing chams is expect the unexpected. Thanks!

You said..."My theory is that they are injuring themselves. How? well that im not positive of but I think it could be due to shooting at the same prey and connecting tongues as I have seen them do that. One will retract and will pull the others tongue with the retracted tongue"....this is one reason not to keep them together unless the cage is quite big. I prefer longer shorter cages for babies so that it gives them more horizontal space to spread out. It seems to cause less problems that way.

You said..."I dont think it is a nutritional thing as I have some panther chams going on 5 years old(not breeders) and a mellers whos about 2 years"...different species seem to differ slightly in how much of an imbalance they can tolerate before there is a "reaction". Its possible that we are just keeping them on the "edge" of their nutrient requirements so some fall over the edge so to speak.

If its an injury at least some of them should get over the injury and be able to shoot the tongue again I think??

Hope you get it figured out!

sorry didnt answer the source of heat question...in a container with moist perlite inside a bin to keep the light out. Kept them in the basement where temps stay a steady 72-78