Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have had one Sulcata for about 5 years now, she has never had any sort of problems, so I decided to purchase 2 hatchlings at the reptile expo back at the beginning of January. I picked the most active one and the largest one. The larger one was never very active, but he did eat and drink, so I just let it be. After about 2 months, I discovered the larger hatchling dead. I removed it from the enclosure and started noticing that the other hatchling was becoming more and more listless. He just lays there most of the time, his hind legs seem limp compared to how he was before. He still eats, but not as much as he use to. When I soak him, he doesn't drink like he use to. I have since added two more hatchlings, but I keep them in a seperate area, and they are doing very well. I have noticed that my sick hatchling's shell is a little different from the healthy ones - it is more square shaped than round, it is flatter, and it is much lighter in color, more yellow. I am well read on the care of Sulcata Hatchlings and I cannot figure out what I could be doing wrong, perhaps he is just a case of failure syndrome? Here is some information on how he is cared for:

2'X 2' pine box enclosure
coconut substrate, i mist it once a day for hydration
halogen heat/basking bulb...area temp. is 75-80 deg, basking area 90-95 deg.
I have tried to feed him alfalfa and timothy, but he's not interested so I offer him dandelions and romaine lettuce, he eats the romain, about 1" square inche per day. he also seems to digest a little of the coconut shell substrate...is this ok?
I sprinkle the romaine with calcium powder twice a week and Vitamin powder twice a week.
I don't currently have him under a UV light, but I take him outside and leave him in an enclosure under natural sunlight several days a week for a couple hours. Could this be a big problem?
I also have a small water dish in the enclosure and I have been soaking him every day for at least 10 minutes.

Any help is appreciated.

Hi Tonia,
I can't say what your problem is, but maybe if I share a few ideas with you, perhaps it will help. Only one little square of romaine is not enough nutrition. I'm not familiar with the coconut bedding, but could it possibly be that he is eating so much of it, that he is not hungry for real food? I'm getting very good results using potting soil. I like Scott's Topsoil as it has peat moss already in it and no fertilizer. I get it at Walmart for about $3.00 a bag. I also do not give mine vitamins or calcium because if given too much, it could cause the problems that you're having. I use a cuttlebone for their calcium which they really like. In addition to various grasses and leaves, lots of Opuntia cactus leaves chopped up, I also supplement with Mazuri Tortoise food and Zoomed Grassland to make sure that they are getting the right nutrients. It's like tortoise candy. You might try using UVA AND UVB when they are inside. It really perks mine up.

I know that you are experienced, but what the heck.....it's worth a try. Are you familiar with the Turtle Cafe site?
Good luck!

Really sorry to hear about your baby sulcatas. Here are a couple ideas that come to mind. I don't know is these issues are the problem but it may be something to consider.

There's a significantly important correlation between UVB, vitamin D synthesis, and body temperature. A baby tortoise may have access to UVB but still have problems with calcium absorption because its not at a properly elevated body temperature for an appropriate period of time. Your indoor enclosure may be rather large to hold a proper temperature for two small hatchlings. The basking spot temperatures look ok but I have noticed that baby tortoises don't "bask" a whole lot. They seem to rely on ambient temperatures to thermoregulate more so than lizards or larger tortoises do. This is probably because baby tortoises in the wild basking out in the bright open can easily become a meal for a hungry predator. Try to create an environment where half the entire cage is around 90+ degrees with a basking spot at 100. Provide a cool half of the cage at around 80 degrees. Also - If the weather in your area is less than 75 try to make sure your tortoises are "warmed up" before you take them out to get some rays. If the outdoors is less than 70 degrees for more than a few days I'd suggest you get some UVB reptile lights for their indoor enclosure. Your 2x2 box is large enough to use a Zoodmed Powersun UVB or T-rex Active Heat, both of which are great products and have saved many pet reptiles suffering from metabolic bone disease. Unfortunately this disease can come upon quickly in baby tortoises and they often struggle to recover.

The romaine is probably not a great source of nutrition on its own. Dandelions are great but, again, not as an entire diet source. It would be best to feed your tortoises a varied diet including turnip, collard, mustard, prickly pear pads and such. Include dandelion, fresh grasses (very good for sulcatas), and some romaine. Obviously be careful to avoid any food items that may have been treated with pesticides.

Seems like you are supplementing fine but I may cut back on the multivitamin to once a week, a SMALL pinch. Tortoises can overdose on these supplements damaging kidney function. Remember, a well varied diet will provide most of the multivitamins that your tortoises need. Your tortoises will also absorb them easier and more naturally.

Greg Knoell
www.thecoloreddragon.com

www.thecoloreddragon.com

Hi, Thanks for the information. I have cut back on the the supplements, I do each once a week. I have added a ZooMed UV fixture with two bulbs, and I leave it on for 12 hours on each enclosure. I offer the hatchling a variety of healthy foods, but he doesn't eat much. He has no energy. He is obviously dehydrated - his eyes, nostrils, and skin are very dry. I soak him and dampen his head, he rubs his eyes. I dampen his substrate a little to make sure it is not extremely dry and I offer him water. He is just so lethargic. My 2 other hatchlings and 2 adults are still doing well.

I also meant to mention that the ambient temp. in the enclosure is about 86-87 degrees, the hide box is a little cooler, and the basking area is about 100-105. With him being dehydrated I have been wondering if may be too hot.

Don't know if I mentioned it but smaller tortoises are easily dehydrated. Be sure to soak him once or twice a week in room temp water. For my baby tortoises I use a small plastic sweater box and fill the water just deep enough so that the tortoises will need to stick their head out of their shell so to breath. Basically just deep enough that it covers their head if it is inside their shell.

Greg
www.thecoloreddragon.com