Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Thought I would post a few to keep all awake! Nice high white Jacinto Mt. Parv. that eats mostly fingers,arms, and fuzzies.

Wow Joe, I was gonna do the same thing due to the quietness of the room.....LOL. And you too with the parvs, eh? Buggers are psychotic these San Jacs.........especially one of my females is spring-loaded at feeding time. I haven't taken many pics recently but here's one of the males (macro-crap shot...).

And bring me back a nice tricolor from Florida if possible . . .

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Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

I showed that pic to my female and she started kissing the screen. We might have to make a future e-harmony date for those two. She too is by far my most aggressive feeder and I think would eat herself to death if I allowed it. (she binge eats due to depression I guess)

Sounds like plan cochese......

St. Helena zonata zonata

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Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Now that makes me wonder, who said it's time to take them all away ?!?

call me......it's easier this way for this conversation. Too tired to type. 917.301.0727
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Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

So much for coloration on the snout being diagnostic of agalma.

Nice pics.

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Rick Staub

yyyyyep, never seen any other z, except for Coastals, with red on the snout. I do have a male Laguna pulchra with some red "eyebrows" kinda like the San Jac parv male I posted above but never anything below that.

Let's just tick off Joe and call his parv a hybrid or a cross.........LMAO.

But then again, with the nomenclature debocle I presume that it couldn't be as they'd both be from the southern clade....? Just pronouncing the word "clade" is frustrating enough Rick. Do you know I've heard three different forms of pronunciation for that dang word?!? LOL.

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Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

From the San Berdoo's. Seen one with red eyeliner up there this year. The SJ's are classic.

The San Berdoo parvs, which are the most common, have that classic checkerboad-like ventral patterning.....quite like a typical corn. Whenever I've been asked to identify what someone thinks to be a z or wants to know what ssp (formerly.....dangit....) I use the ventrals to rule out San Berdoo parv right off the bat if it looks to be either parv or pulchra. I have San Jac's that have clean red rings going through the ventrals, but every San Bernardino parv I've ever seen over the years has that including mine here at home.

Looks like a beautiful snake....can we get another shot of it?
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Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

"but every San Bernardino parv I've ever seen over the years has that including mine here at home. "

So, how many have you seen over the years...?

There is a definitely a difference between animals seen in the field and locality animals that have been captive bred for a few generations. Most of us cherry pick the prettiest (low black, no crossovers, etc.) offspring to breed. After a few generations, many of the traits of the animals seen in the wild (high black, aberrant patterns, etc.) are gone and the traits we like (low or high band count, red snouts, etc.) remain.

At least I think this is where Jeff was going with his comment!?

Greg Huston

A Z from my neck of the woods (Southern Oregon)

How old are we...?????
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Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

"How old are we...?????"

45, but I work with teenagers for a living (school administration).
The language rubs off on you after awhile.

I can concur -- I'm a child and adolescent psychotherapist and have had language rubbing off on me as well for the last 11 years. In order to engage in a trusting, therapeutic relationship one must try and "join" with a yound patient to begin that foundation. My wife struggles when I say things like "don't worry yo", etc etc. I just bust out laughing when she gives me that "look".

Now I have four reasons to like Oregon -- red spotted garters, super-rare zonata, exquisite California-Oregon kings, and your sense of humor. Good to meet ya.

I agree that's where Jeff was going, but he likes to get my goat every now 'n' then.

Jefffff?? Yooooohoooooo...... get down from your pyro site and respond man.......
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Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Super rare zonata? Where?

Whites? San Benito? Moraga?
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Rick Staub

Didn't anyone ever tell you that it's not WHAT you say....it's HOW you say it. Feelin' kinda "ouch" right about now. Good thing I know you as well as I do, or we'd have throw a pie at 20 paces......lol.

I know you've seen likely wayyyy more parvs than I have, and probably mostly in-situ. I've not had that kind of luxury as you've not been able to see a Jersey pinesnake emerging from it's own densite (quite spectacular i might add...). However what I was implying that the parvs that i've seen in the span of the last 16 years is just what I'd alluded to -- many, which I've observed from Arrowhead locality and seemingly the most common locale, have displayed ventrals atypical to other zonata ssp. in which I'm referring to that somewhat mottled, checkerboard pattern as opposed to clean red rings going completely/consistently through the ventral portion -- and yes, some more dramatic than others.

Would you not agree that San Bernardino parv ventrals tend to be a bit "busier" than other z's?
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Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

WOW...hahaha... honestly didn't think so much would come of the post.

I cant say about other zonata....I got a lot of exp. with the parvs in the berdoos and thats about it. Now I've seen them from a lot of places in friends collections, but feel I dont have enough exp. or seen enough samples to say how their ventrals. In a way, yes, a few have semi checkered ventrals, but usually with the red/black, white bands are usually full across the ventral. Now again, I have not seen very many cb berdoo parvs, honestly come to think about it, maybe a small handful if that. So its possible that after a few generations they get these busy patterns you see in your snakes...?, but then again, I have a feeling you have field animals and not a hobby line of parvs...?. Like I said, I had no means of my above post to stir the pot, so to say. Mikes pic just didnt classic at all to me, and thats only to me and what my personal observations have been. Take it easy,
Jeff

ps-Yes, I would love to see a pit entering a burrow, as I'm a field guy first and theres no where I'd ever rather be or do than observe wild life in the field. But just to poke one back at you....you can have the east coast pits entering sandy holes or temps in the barrens.....I'd much rather be seeing rosalia exiting the rd qucikly, or walk trivs in BCS...or this one might get you....be able to observe a Zonata while drinking beers with friends at a swimming hole...thats what you keep right...?LOL...later man

Jeff of COURSE I'd ditch most things (except for the wife and kids......well, at least not the kids......) to see what you see. Good point my man.......good point.
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Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Going home. Taken as they were going down under.

That was a memorable day for me. Eight Z's, a handful of rubber boas and two Long Canyon rosys later that evening.

Of the eight I saw that day only this one had markings like that. The rest were all typical of the hundred or so I've seen throughout the state. The only reason I took that photo was because it was so abnormal to me.

Most do have that separated white banding on the ventrals that give it that cornsnake checkered look to some degree, but nothing remarkable like this particular animal.

Yeah Mike, although, not through out the state, but def. well over 100 Z's seen personally in the berdoos, only a few have had high white ventrals, and only one or 2 off memory to the degree of the one you posted. Most all have full white bands across the ventral, then checkered black/red between. We've seen a couple with almost all red ventrals too, Candice caught one like that before-(little black and scatttered white here and there, but pretty much a full red ventral). Thats why I replied, I didn't think it was all that "classic" for the area. Did you guys find those 2 snakes together...?
jeff

heres white ventrals for sure....just not of the z type-

I thought that's what your were getting at. That was my first time up there, and they all seemed pretty classic parv. to me except for two screamers.

Brian found the boa and that parv. next to each other but under separate rocks.

I love her little red flakes. Geez, I hope she is not a hybrid. Thanks for that one Jerry!!! Ha ha.

No worries mate -- just like to mess with you is all. Have fun in Florida. Give a shout when you return...
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Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."