Reptile & Amphibian Forums

so i pretty much have to start breeding my own rats. i dont really want to but its needed at this time. so i have a buch of tanks in the celler from way back when b4 i had racks, and i was wondering what would the best setup up be with the tanks for breeding rats. i have 10g, 20g high,30g long i have a bunch.
so would it be best to set up an auto drip system or bottle in tank? rat block in tank or devise a way to do a drop down screen for the block to rest on? all ideas are welcome as well as suggestions that i have not asked for directly.
eventually i will build a rack but i only need enough food to supply 12-15 balls (all under a year right now) mostly females.
i have the space in my basement. it stays a nice temp year round. ALL SUGGESTIONS WELCOME
adam jeffery
-----
" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

Hi,

I was in your shoes 3 months ago. I just fed all my snakes live last week for the first time. I would not use tanks. I would build a rack system. If I was using tanks I would not be enjoying breeding rats at all. I spend 30 minutes a week cleaning my tubs. If I was in tanks it would take 10 minutes per tank. I am cleaning about 18 tubs a week right now. If you are interested in a rack system you can find posts that tell you everything you need. I also put in water systems with a main tank and I put several gallons a week in each weekly. A 6 cement tub rack with water costs about 150 for everything and I actually enjoyed building it. I then built a 24 tub birthing rack with water and enjoyed building that as well. I am a rat breeding machine now and we are doing really well. The only thing that sucks now is we are getting attached to the little buggers and it seems that we want to keep them all as pets. I actually have to take 30 minutes before I feed to mentally prepare for the slaughter. It works out and you will be more worried about your snakes during the feeding. Anyway just thought I would share my experiences up to now.

Mark
-----
STRENGTH IN NUMBERS

Adam,
You will hate rats in tanks as the cleaning is 10X that of tubs. That and tanks just don't have airflow and rats must have air. IF you must....use the low long tanks and say...a trio in a 20long. That sort of thing. 10 gal are too small for anything at all. The tall tanks have no airflow and a mother to get water or food down into at all.
Sonya
-----
Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

how are things at cityzoo?
hows all your critters doing?
do you still have my email, keep in touch
adam jeffery
ill email you
-----
" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

Hello Adam. i do keep a quad of rats in apprx 36 x 18 x 18 breeder all glass w. wire top and use quart glass beer bottle with screw on sipper that go rite thru a 4" hole in the wire and elec taped a stopper around the bottle made from vinyl tubing and black tape,and a long drop food hopper(cylindrical).
And a dust pan makes quick work of changing the substrate.L8r Chris aka farfrompukin....LOL

>>how are things at cityzoo?
>>hows all your critters doing?
>>do you still have my email, keep in touch
>>adam jeffery
>>ill email you
>>-----
>>" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
>>When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

Hey, sorry it took a bit to respond. I am busy. Not working at CityZoo anymore....I own a boarding kennel. Own boss and much better pay.....though loads more paperwork.Critters are good. Wish there were about 10 more hours in a day though.
-----
Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

But I modified many 10 gallon glass tanks like this.....

First I cut down the 10 gallon tanks to half high "5 gallon?" tanks. To do so, I cut a piece of plywood such that a glass cutter's wheel would score the sides at the half height of the side panels. Half height is important as some sides will break and the leftovers can be used to replace them. Before cutting, remove the top plastic rail, score all four sides. Place tank on side and tap from the inside along score line. repeat for all four sides. If you're good, you will separate the tank from the upper half in two full pieces. Then use silicon to glue the top rim back on.

Then build a top. Mine were from 2" strips of 3/4" plywood. I sized them at longer dimension plus 1 3/4" x shorter dimension plus 1/4". Also need 3/4" square x shorter dimension and 1/8 ply for the sides at 1 1/2" x longer dimension.

Make a screen top from 1/2" screen and mold/attach food and water bottle holders.

Note the solid metal guards for the water bottles, prevents chewing.

Be happy to supply more details if needed.

They fit four wide on a 4' shelving unit. I spaced the shelves so they would barely fit - aka as amany shelves as I could fit. I had 20 plus at one time.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Please keep in mind that EACH rat requires a minimum of TWO (2) CUBIC FEET of cage space, as I learned the hard way a year and a third ago.

What happened 1 and a third years ago that led you to 2 cubic feet of cage space per rat?

And why 2 cubic feet per rat? IMO seems VERY excessive.

I regularly keep mine in measurably less than 2 cubic feet for each rat in tubs. And have done so for 20 years.

Currently I keep 1.3 breeding groups in my cat litter pan sized tub racks. That works out to 0.17 cubic foot / rat.

I also have large mortar tub growout racks. In them I keep various qty's depending on size....
16 large = 0.18 cubic feet / rat
20 med = 0.14 cubic feet / rat
40 weanling = 0.07 cubic feet / rat

The large mortar tub at 35" x 20" x 7" is only 2.8 cubic feet per tub so by your numbers is not large enough to even house a 1.1 pair?

>>Please keep in mind that EACH rat requires a minimum of TWO (2) CUBIC FEET of cage space, as I learned the hard way a year and a third ago.
>>
>>
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

. . . is what is mandated on ALL of the rat care websites. Like this one at: http://www.spoiledratten.com/housingcontent.html
where they say, ". . . get the biggest cage you can for your rats so they have plenty of space to move around and to play. Allow at least two cubic feet per rat and take into account individual levels. A tall cage with only the one level still isn't much space."

http://www.paw-talk.net/forums/f16/rat-cage-size-51490.html
"Rats need a minimim of 2 cubic feet EACH to be happy."

Here are some urls to cage size calculators:

http://www.rattycorner.com/odds/calc.shtml
"As a default it allows 2 cubic feet per rat for two or more rats, which gives results that generally coincide with the number of rats which the experienced rat keeper is happy to house in a cage."

http://www.ratclub.org/cgi-bin/cage3.cgi
"The guideline for this cage calculator is 2 cubic feet per rat. . . . however the bigger the cage the better."

I almost went to jail 16 months ago, because my rats were a little more crowded than two cubic feet per rat. That is what I mean about learning this the hard way. My county has a very mean jailer, so I am terrified of going to jail.

Snakey Lakey

Sounds to me that your county has too much time on their hands to be going around the neighborhood measuring rat cages. They must also have unlimited funds to jail people for 1.75 cubic feet of space for their rats. What do they do to real criminals?
-----
No good deed goes unpunished!

Hi,

Sorry if I say I don't believe you but I don't believe you. Most of the rat enclosures Petsmart sell do not even meet that criteria. Do you know how many rats are sold a day in this country to small children. Plus the biggest breeder in the country is near Dallas, I think they are called rainbow. They use the sames breeding setups most of us use. And they are a full regulated business. When did government stipulate what a varmant needs to be homed properly. Where I live there is a free roaming law to. It says any animal is allowed to free roam. I doubt they give a crap about the size of my tubs my rats are kept in that I breed for snake food. Anyway makes a nice story.

Regards,
Mark
-----
STRENGTH IN NUMBERS

this is the feeder animal forum, not the pet rat forum.

From a feeder breeder perspective, 2 cubic feet per rat is ridiculous.

The sites you listed are the ones that keep rats as pets and abhor those of us that raise them as feeders for other animals. Depends where you are in the food chain I guess.

And technically speaking, rodents are classified as vermin. That classification allows you to kill them any way you like including rat poison which when ingested will make them die in a horrific, extremely painful way. My feeder colony has food, water, bedding changes and even a exhaust fan to keep the temps under control. Any that may escape (very few and far between) will find none of that. Will likely find the poison stations I ha ve for just that scenario.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I am still hurting from last year's rat fiasco.

Instead of hijacking Adam's thread, I will start a new thread on the topic of cage size requirements for rats, where we can continue this discussion, please. Because I do, still, need some clarification on this issue.

Also, I do have snakes. One Great Basin Gopher snake; and one Wandering Garter snake, both W/C and of unknown gender.

Snakey Lakey

www.farmhouserats.com/Housing-+-Cages.php

"Wire cages are standard when it comes to housing rats. Rats should not be housed in aquariums or plastic tubs (with the exception of mothers with very young babies.) These types of housing do not provide the rat with adequate ventilation, enough space, or any surfaces to climb on. Lack of ventilation can cause temperatures to rise dangerously, as well as allow for a build up of ammonia inside. Lack of space and climbing room can cause both health and tempermental problems. Rats need a cage large enough to get exercise in, even if they are taken out of the cage regularly."

LOL, funny how the feeder rats are kept totally different then the pet groups want. Every single rat I have is in a plastic tub with screen top and are doing just fine. They only get taken out for one of a few reasons.......

1) weekly cleaning and replacement of substrate.
2) moving a female into a males tub for impregnation.
3) moving a female to a isolation tub for birthing of litter.
4) moving weaned babies to growout rack
5) removing animals (various sizes) to be euthanized and fed to snakes
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Dave i like your old list of how to properly maintain a happy ,friendly ,healthy colony ...euthnization is a humanitary process except for maybe a few on the black list that are simply knocked cold

I WAS trying to breed FEEDER RATS for my Gopher snake; until I ran afoul of the Humane Society.

Possessing over ten (10) animals, aggregate, per household (including any in the freezer), is considered evidence of the FELONY crime of Animal Hoarding. Ridiculous I know, but that is the way it is in my state. At least a half-dozen Animal Hoarders have been prosecuted (and found guilty) in my COUNTY alone in recent years. The only way to keep more animals is to obtain a very expensive animal shelter permit, which is rarely granted.

Snakey Lakey

thanks everybody for your replys. i wont be breeding in tanks anytime soon... i may use them as grow out tubs until i get a couple of racks built though.
currently i have my buddy trying to track down some used lab grade breeding tubs with the wire top.
thanks again
adam jeffery
-----
" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.