Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A few months ago, one of my adult female SIGBs passed 19 stillborn babies. No slugs, no signs of life. They looked perfectly formed.
I asked around, and was told that the issue might have been with the lack of a real moist hide. I promptly added one to all my cages - in fact, the adults females all got two (a big one and a smaller "tight" one).

Last night, my other adult female passed a dozen or so (I didn't count) half formed babies with yolk, and slugs.

This seems like more than bad luck, but I don't know what I'm doing wrong. They are in 3 x 2 x 2 birch plywood - sealed with waterbourne varathane - cages, side vents, ambient air temperature is around 85F, with a cool side of 82F, and a warm side of 88F. Three hides per cage (one large moist hide, one "tight" moist hide, and one dry hide), as well as a shelf in the cage. Water bowl large enough for soaking (but they don't soak much).

I spray them once a day, feed them f/t once every 14 days - meals are smallish, just enough to leave a discernible lump.

Are the cages too big? Too warm (they have a wide gradient and the snakes don't seem to cram to the hot side or cool side)? Is there some sort of nutritional deficiency that stems from reptile eaters eating rodents?

Any insight would be much appreciated!

Pretty much everything you listed could be a cause. How big are the females that are kept in those cages? My females would be lost in cages that size. Might want to drop that cool end temp. as well. If they're forming babies, and digesting food, the core temp. is probably going to be above your coolest point. Feeding while gravid is tough too and you generally don't want to feed late in the gestation period. If she goes to defecate and starts pushing, who knows what she might push out. The other one just sounds like something made her not comfortable enough to drop them at full term and she held them too long. If you were constantly checking in on them, that could cause some stress as well. Sorry things didn't work out for you.

Thanks for the input. The females are both about 3 feet long. There is a fair of "stuff" in the cage that it shouldn't feel like a big open void, lots of hidey holes. I have a hard time accepting the "too big cage" diagnosis; the wild is a lot bigger. The cages are made now but I will look into adding more hides.

The cool end is cooler in the winter, but we're in a heat wave and I'm battling the temps right now. I turned off the lights (those fluorescent lights produce a surprising amount of heat!) and have set the heat tape to turn off at the hottest times of the day, hopefully that helps.

The first female did not eat for a couple months before she passed the stillborns; the second female seemed hungry so I continued to feed her, but giving her small food items.

Anyway, I'm not going to repeat any breeding attempts until 2011, so I'm going to spend the next couple years taking advice and doing any more research I can... and hope for better results in 2011!

I spoke to someone else who theorized that, being "recently" WC females (at least 2 years for them both), they may still not be properly cycled, or if she "held" a just-after-season mating, either she or the male may not have been producing very many viable sex cells, and she aborted the slugs even though there were a few fertile ova.

You might not buy it, but it can have an affect. The wild aspect is gone once you put them into a cage. An example from first hand experience. I had a woman give me a ball python adult because it wouldn't feed at all for her. It was kept in a 4x2x2 cage. I brought her home, put her into a 28qt. tub and she fed the same day. So, I gave her back, and months later she returned her to me with the same problem. Would not feed. She went right back to feeding as soon as I put her into a 28qt. tub. I have a friend working with Olive pythons and they're in huge cages. His success hasn't been so great. On the other hand I know somoene keeping Olives in 3' cages and he has great success. These are 12' snakes kept in 3' cages so that cage is actually quite large for a 3' female SIGB. It could be any number of things, but if it happens to be insecurity in a large cage, and that's something you won't accept as possible, then it will never be changed. It could also just be plain bad luck. People have been breeding BCI for a long time and it still happens with CBB animals (which can negate the other guys reasoning on not being acclimated). People also bring in gravid imports and hold onto the females resulting in good litters. Just saying don't be quick to jump to a conclusion. Keep asking around, see what everyone else is doing and see what stands out.

I really don't know much about this, but 3 feet long seems quite small for a female: maybe they are a little too young to breed sucessfully? What is the preferred size for a breeding female?
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Hi Helen,

I doubt that's the problem; I've had them for 2-3 years and they haven't grown since I got them. I might be underestimating their size, though

I have no experience breeding them myself, but the females I've seen have successful litters have been in the 4 - 5 foot long class. Probably more to do with body weight than length though, all the people who I've talked to have emphasised the need for females to be really well fed and heavy before they breed as it takes a lot out of their metabolism.

It must be heartbreaking to have all the excitement and then a dead litter: better luck for the future,
Helen
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IF YOUR FEMALES WERE IMPORTED, THEY MOST LIKELY LOST THEIR BABIES DURING THE FLIGHT 15,000 MILES AWAY IN INDONESIA...VERY COLD TEMPS IN THE CARGO HOLDS OF PLANES WILL ALMOST ALWAYS KILL ANY BABIES INSIDE OF GRAVID FEMALES....BEEN THERE, DONE THAT...SORRY FOR YOUR LOSSES....JC

Thanks for the insight Jerry, but these girls were not imported that recently. I've had them both for about two years.