Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Anyone have a morph list for Kenyans?

-Chris
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps

I will get it started:

Normal (wildtype)
Hypo
Anery
Albino
Paradox Albino
Snow
Paradox Snow
Splash
Nuclear
Flame
Reduced pattern
Normal Stripe
Anery Stripe
Granite
rufescens (solid brown)
Tiger
Calico
Mocha
Dodoma

I am sure I am missing some.... anyone have anything else to add?

Thanks,
Chris

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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps

Do some of the names on your list actually deserve full "morph" status? To me a morph is a inheritable trait...dominant, recessive, or codominate. Don't get me wrong, I'd definately include them in a list, but I'd seperate them from morphs.

Nuclear-Line Bred produced trait. Others can produce the "traits" without being nuclears.
Flame-???? Always heard it as Dodoma Flames. Am I missing something?
Reduced Pattern-Same as nuclear.
Dodoma-Locality that is typically reduced pattern.
Stripe-I've seen stripes that were not part rufencse.

Not really up to date on the genetics for the following
Hypo
Splash
Granite?
Calico? Anyone have a pic of this?

Only things I can think of that you didn't mention were just the typical high orange and the "blizzards" that SGR claims. Could be wrong on that last. Haven't looked into that in a LONG time. Maybe put Nuclears under the "high orange" heading?
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Travis Rose
Lazy S Snake Ranch
3.7 Kenyan sand boas (various morphs)
1.2 Indian sand boas
0.3 Dogs
0.1 Cat
X.X Fish
0.1 Very understanding wife
2.0 Future Snake Lovers

SGR also claims Nuclearmeltdowns which is a cross between a nuclear and a dodoma, I believe.

I'd like to see a stripe not 1/2 rufescen that color doesn't run dorsally anywhere. I have quite a few normals that the black pattern doesn't touch anywhere on the back but the color stills runs down the sides in some places. Are they Stripes?

The stripes I'm talking about are definitely stripes and are pretty distinguished.

Scroll farther down this forum to Scott's post of his Tinley purchases. He bought three snow splashes 1.2, I think.

I would like to see a picture of a Flame, Dodoma, High Orange, Nuclearmeltdown and Nuclear and have someone distinguish between the five. If it can be done then theirs a standard and to me then theirs a morph.

First picture is of an Anery Splash (psssst...look at the tail) sold by Reptile Industries aka the Bells.

Second picture is what I think a 'Stripe' should look like. This is a 50% Rufescen and 50% Normal High Orange.

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Mark Huntley
Sand Boa Morphs
3.1 Rufescens East African Sand Boas
2.1 Albinos EASB
0.1 Dodoma EASB
0.1 Egyptian Normal (yellow) SB
0.1 Normal (orange) SB
2.5 Anery SB
0.1 Snow SB
0.1 Splash Albino SB
1.0 Splash Anery SB
1.0 Orange Stripe 100% Het Anery SB
1.0 Orange Stripe SB
1.0 Yellow Stripe SB
0.1 Orange Tiger SB
2.2 High Orange SB
3.2 Boston Terriers
0.2 Sooners
8.30 Rhode Island Reds
X.X Tropical Fish
0.1 Moody Wives
1.1 On the fence in-laws
2.1 Rug Rats

Dodoma and Flame. Distinguished by the fact that they are a naturally occurring population that has little speckling as they age. I don't know of anyone that has tried to argue these as separate morphs. If there is an argument, it would probably just be that "Dodoma"s have a well documented history whereas "Flame" could be called such with a shakier history. I think that if someone were to make that argument, it would probably be grounded in a greed based attempt to sell a mix bred litter for more money.

High Orange as a morph is easily distinguished by the fact that the animals are either just the top of a litter or slightly bred to produce larger patches of orange. It's a name given to animals that don't stand out enough to have a real morph, but are felt to deserve a way to represent that they stand out compared to "pet store" quality specimen. This is one of the, if not the most, abused terms.

Nuclear is similar to Dodoma, except it is a naturally selected line, as opposed to a naturally isolated population caused by, well genetic isolation.

NuclearMeltdowns, I have no opinion yet as to if I recognize as a legitimate morph, partly because there was a lack of work (no offense to Chuck/SGR, who have obviously produced some of the most beautiful KSGs I've ever seen,) but mostly because we simply haven't seen how the genetics may pan out may generations down the line. Basically, whereas Nuclears and Dodomas will produce the same appearance time and again as long as they are left to randomly mate, NuclearMeltdowns may not. I'm guessing that time will show that they typically will, and that we can all recognize it as completely legit, but it will take time.

You can make an argument that there should only be two recognized morphs, with High Orange used to describe animals vastly different from the other three types. But it's an entirely semantic argument. Dodomas viewed as local or as a morph will retain the value as a locality based pheno and genotype. Nuclears will always be descendants of the line. In the pet trade, it's virtually pointless to try to argue with the general terms used. (Ex. the use of co-dom to describe traits that in no way resemble co-dominant traits)

" can make an argument that there should only be two recognized morphs"

Maybe I didn't read your post right but do you not consider amelanism a morph?

I would define "Morph" in this context as a visual difference between organisms. Even normal looking kenyans are a "morph" of Eryx colubrinus even though it is the most common form.

Morphs do not have to be proven (although it increases their value in the pet-trade).

Just my 2 cents,

-Chris

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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC

Personally, I hate the word "morph". But, if it must be used, it should follow suit within the entire context of the hobby/industry; i.e. a genetically predictable and reproducible trait.

And for the love of (insert deity), stop with the silly name game. Ya really do not have to copy the Ball Python breeders. Simplicity at it's finest....Anerythistic Stripe; not "LIGHTENING BOLT KENYANS"! White Tiger may sound cool to some, but it makes me think of Sigfried and Roy (not Stockwell). That's the problem with "Flames" or "Flame Race". They both are describing the Dodoma Valley locality of East African Sand Boa. And even they are not "Heterozygous for Dodoma".

Distinct lines (specifically bred lines or line breedings with a purpose) should contain the originator's last name.

I dunno, I kinda like white lightning. I mean, that just sounds cool. Why bother being descriptive

Vinny
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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859

Natural Selection Reptiles

White Lightening is already spoken for. Ever hear of moonshine?
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Travis Rose
Lazy S Snake Ranch
3.7 Kenyan sand boas (various morphs)
1.2 Indian sand boas
0.3 Dogs
0.1 Cat
X.X Fish
0.1 Very understanding wife
2.0 Future Snake Lovers

Ah, that's my bad. That post was in response to
"I would like to see a picture of a Flame, Dodoma, High Orange, Nuclearmeltdown and Nuclear and have someone distinguish between the five. If it can be done then theirs a standard and to me then theirs a morph."
and was only talking about that group of animals. I consider that group to be more then two morphs... I consider typical wild-types to be more than two morphs. My statement about making an argument about the group in the quote is even a reference to the fact that clumping the "types" into fewer "morphs" is just be word games little use and/or relevance in reality.

I posted the 'would like to see pictures and descriptions of the flame, etc.'

I really don't know the difference between all of these different 'morphs' if you will.

I think some of them could be grouped together but I'd love to hear someone who has these describe the differences and see a picture of them side by side.
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Mark Huntley
Sand Boa Morphs
3.1 Rufescens East African Sand Boas
2.1 Albinos EASB
0.1 Dodoma EASB
0.1 Egyptian Normal (yellow) SB
0.1 Normal (orange) SB
2.5 Anery SB
0.1 Snow SB
0.1 Splash Albino SB
1.0 Splash Anery SB
1.0 Orange Stripe 100% Het Anery SB
1.0 Orange Stripe SB
1.0 Yellow Stripe SB
0.1 Orange Tiger SB
2.2 High Orange SB
3.2 Boston Terriers
0.2 Sooners
8.30 Rhode Island Reds
X.X Tropical Fish
0.1 Moody Wives
1.1 On the fence in-laws
2.1 Rug Rats

While I agree that line-bred traits are different than other genetic traits (recessive, codom etc...), they are both "morphs".

I guess you could argue that dodoma and rufescens are wildtypes (locales) and not morphs...

-Chris
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps

I see your point. Just don't know how to classify some of it. Isn't it awesome though Can't wait until we find a lucy trait....think of the possibilities.
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Travis Rose
Lazy S Snake Ranch
3.7 Kenyan sand boas (various morphs)
1.2 Indian sand boas
0.3 Dogs
0.1 Cat
X.X Fish
0.1 Very understanding wife
2.0 Future Snake Lovers

Although my other post makes the statement of it being rather useless to argue with general use-age of words in the pet trade, I would have to say you aren't being technical enough. With your education, I think you could be one of the most useful people on the board for clarifying issues.

In staying somewhat on topic with ruffies and flames, they are obvious morphs, and few captives would be able to be referred to as wild-types when dealing with an issue regarding only that morph. I can't see any argument which would allow them (even those in the wild) to be considered wild-type when talking about all KSBs.

I have a photo of a Calico kenyan (it was posted here a while back). I cannot remember who's it is and do not want to repost it since it is not mine. I think there are 3 known (from 2 litters).

Maybe someone can dig up that post?? I cannot find it.

-Chris
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps

ghost / hypo anery (pictured with an albino) thanks scott erycine1@aol.com

I agree with Scott, a morph (or mutation) must be genetically reproducible and predictable. This, IMO, is at least what has been accepted by the majority of the Herpeteculture community.
You could argue that many of the line bred animals would qualify, but that is only if you breed it to others from the same line. If you breed and nuclearmeltdown to a normal looking Kenyan you won’t get some nuclears and some normals and you won’t get normals that are het for nuclear. You will have simply broken the line trait and will have animals which will share some traits from each parent with some traits shared more than others. You cannot have a het Dodoma flame or a het nuclear!
Here’s my list.

MORPH
Axanthic
Snow
Albino
Paradox snow
Paradox albino
Vanishing pattern (so I’ve heard)

LINE BRED TRAIT nuclear (line bred locality)
Dodoma / Flame (same thing and a locality)
Stripes, granites, and tigers (all that I have seen have been produced by mixing with the ruffies)
Rufescens, (locality with the argument that They could be a separate sub- Species)

UNPROVEN MORPHS (or those that have not yet had their genetics announced)
Hypo (very close)
Ghost (very close)
Hypo albino
Chocolate (probably the same as mocha)
Mocha
Splash
Calico
Peach (probably the same as the hypo)
Pearl albino (probably the same as hypo/albino)
Some of the others that are mentioned are combinations of line bred animals and do not make my list of morphs. (and I’m sure I’ve missed something also)

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Steve Perry
North Idaho.