Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Look, everyone is getting so bent out of shape about what this one person is saying. The fact is, you cant use logic to argue emotion. This person is using anger and resentment and bitterness to try and make a point and get everyone all worked up. This should be a valuable lesson to us all. These same type of people are pushing the bills. They can't be argued with logically because they aren't logical. If you remove emotion(fear, paranoia, anger) and whatever hidden agenda there is, then we all know there is no cause for any of these proposals. There in lies the problem, how do you fight irrationalism with logic. I think you have to get to the root of what this is all about. We have to know how to fight this fight if we are to win.
We can make calls all day, but its the same old story when it comes to our politicians, and the people with the most money have the loudest voices. There is alot of money and lobbying power in the Humane Society. We need to find a way to make our voices heard. That is where the focus needs to be, not in a forum where no member of congress,that will vote on this bill, will ever be. Let this idiot rant and rave on this forum, let us fight the fight out there. If you get enough support outside of the reptile nation(voters) and can threaten these guys with possibilty of not being reelected then maybe we can get somewhere. Just my opinion.

while i see and agree to some extent with your thought, i would say, it is good for everyone to state their opinions to idiots like that, that just post to simply rile things up. i do know, that there a quite a few congress people, that do look at things like this, just never post or anything, just to see what people are saying and talking about in herp forums. if they see some yahoo post stupid ignorant ranting crap, and no one comes back to defend our hobby, it also looks bad.
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retic is king of kings

1.0 Tiger Retic
1.0 Albino Tiger Retic
0.1 Striped Tiger Retic (het albino)
0.1 Salmon Boa
1.0 Albino Boa
0.1 False Water Cobra

Very well stated, and thus why we are losing the battle. Until we can convince people that snakes are like little kittens we are just pi....ing in the wind. It is not the "facts" that are killing us, but the "public relations and image."

Dan

>>Very well stated, and thus why we are losing the battle. Until we can convince people that snakes are like little kittens we are just pi....ing in the wind. It is not the "facts" that are killing us, but the "public relations and image."
>>
>>Dan

It's your image that is killing you. And that is exactly what I have repeated over and over. You are not just killing yourselves you are killing the rest of the hobby. It not the FEW snakes let go, it's not the FEW that have killed their owner or the owners family or friends, its not the FEW who walk around with their big snake as an exhibit, or the FEW who feed their snake dogs and cats. It's the sum of the total. I haven't been to a herp show in two years. Our local show was shut down. I was so disgusted with the last show I sold my breeding colony and got out of the business. We had some very idiotic people at the previous show release a retic in the parking lot of the hotel the show was at, and it was run over. Frankly there were probably about 25% of the attendees that were foolish idiots. The next show federal Game and Fish, local game and fish, State tax and revenue, and city animal control all converged at the show and forced vendors to purchase licenses and permits. We no longer have a show. The local herp keepers suffered.

When I lived in AZ I was accosted by local media because one of the members of the AZ Herp Association was feeding puppies and kittens to their burm. It was an embarassment to the whole club.......especially when it was on all three local news stations in Phoenix.

Its funny how a FEW people can eff up a great hobby. A FEW people have screwed all of you and you did nothing. THAT is what really pisses me off. A FEW people have given you a bad "image" and pissed away your "public relations".

A FEW people are still breeding and selling irresonsibly. (Look below at some of the posts) What are you gonna do about it. And what the hell are you doing about it KS.com

Now I know a bunch of you think I'm part of PETA or HSUS or just some kind of liberal a-hole. I can't stand OBAMA and I think we should all vote for anyone but ANY incumbent.

That being said its TIME for you all to grow some balls and call those out in YOUR portion of the hobby that reflect poorly on you and the rest of us.
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Vichris
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

I think your still missing the point. You shouldn't judge a group by an idividual. By your logic guns should be illegal because people have murdered others with guns. Cars should be illegal because people have been runover and killed. ALCHOHOL should be illegal because people get drunk and kill other people. Airlines should be shut down because people have died on airplanes. Dogs should be illegal because they kill more people every year than pythons do. I don't think I need to go on. The reasoning for this legislation is not about public safety or the envoirnment. It is about a group pushing an agenda, and using the FORCE of government to do so. The simple fact that you even post anything on this forum is rediculous. You have an agenda to tick people off and use extreme circumstances to make your point. You yourself, even said you didn't care what other people on this forum thought, so what makes you think we care at all what you think. EITHER GET IN THE FIGHT OR GET OUT OF THE WAY!

I guess you haven't noticed that there are quite a number of others here and on the burm forum who not only agree with me but who are also becoming increasing vocal about it too. You and some like you have effed up the hobby and now want us to just shut up and go away. WHY DON'T YOU AND SOME LIKE YOU CHANGE YOUR BEHAVIOR. The fact is that you and some like you are really not concerned about the hobby. You don't give a crap about the animals. You care about the MONEY. Ya its not about the "hobby" its about the "business". You want to breed and sell to whomever YOU see fit as long as they come up with the CASH.

Its ALL about the money.
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Vichris
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

Its a Capitalistic country. Its also a democratic republic. If you dont like what people are doing, just start a homeowners association and not permit snakes in your neighborhood. Not the whole country. It would be a horrible life to live being in the constant persuite of all the conflect of living in a free society. Its childlike to think you can demand that people not produce to many Pythons. I suppose if that were the case you would be complaining about "price fixing, and controlling the market". Its been clear for quite some time BIG snakes are "going out of vouge" so to say, and people are buying the smaller ball pythons. Breeders have gone to grate expence to "get in" on the dwarf Python market because the market demands them. So, we dont need any third party intervention to "Ruin the hobby"*(vichis). Go to some other industry forum and complain about every little thing that people make money at. Vic

emysbreeder is Vic Morgan, not vicris who is ?

VIC - who are you referring to when you say "you" effed it up, etc. I am 100% sure that you have no clue who I am so I certainly hope you are not talking about me.

I have seen very few people agree with you and those who do agree a preaching the same non-data, non-science BS.

You should try to get to know us a bit before telling us how "we" screwed up your world.

I'm having a hard time understanding your mentality - it is severely flawed to say the least.

Rick
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1.3 Albino Burmese Pythons
1.0 Green Burmese Python Het Albino
0.1 Granite Burmese Python Het Albino
1.0 Albino Boa Constrictor
0.1 Hypo Boa Constrictor
0.1 Het Albino Boa Constrictor
1.2 Purple Albino Retic
1.0 Tiger Retic Het Albino
0.1 Sunfire Retic Het Albino
A lot Ball Pythons
A lot of Corn Snakes
A lot of King & Milk Snakes
0.1 Savannah Monitor
Yes I have the space for these reptiles and yes I am a responsible keeper and breeder!

Rick, I can explain where Vic is coming from mentally. He has feelings of inadequacies over the size of his snake and feels the need to denigrate those who have been endowed with a much larger snake.

Just who is "Sherman Mao"...... what a goof nagrag
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Vichris
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

Ahhhh - you have never heard of Chairman Mao... He has been called Sherman Mao for years as a joke.....

Anyway - you still have no point that makes any sense and the reason why is because you are blaming people that you have never met for your problems. It is flawed.

You have no idea what I do or don't do with my reptiles.

You still don't try to communicate and get to know the people that you are blaming. It is actually very bizarre behavior.
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1.3 Albino Burmese Pythons
1.0 Green Burmese Python Het Albino
0.1 Granite Burmese Python Het Albino
1.0 Albino Boa Constrictor
0.1 Hypo Boa Constrictor
0.1 Het Albino Boa Constrictor
1.2 Purple Albino Retic
1.0 Tiger Retic Het Albino
0.1 Sunfire Retic Het Albino
A lot Ball Pythons
A lot of Corn Snakes
A lot of King & Milk Snakes
0.1 Savannah Monitor
Yes I have the space for these reptiles and yes I am a responsible keeper and breeder!

>>Ahhhh - you have never heard of Chairman Mao... He has been called Sherman Mao for years as a joke.....
>>
nagrag said....

"Many of the people appointed by Obama have actually publicly stated that they are fans of people like Hitler and Sherman Mau. I'm not kidding."

You have FORCED me to actually defend the Obama adminstration. Who in the obama adminstration said they are fans of Hitler?

Again what a goof!
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Vichris
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

I just think you're a big mouthed uninformed troll who doesn't have the balls to post his real name. Mine is posted what's yours? You speak about others behaviour and lack of balls and look at you. Put up or shut up....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Thats my question also.(who are you talking about) Vichris , I Joe Whigham, do not sell reptiles or breed them. I have kept them for about 15 years now and I have seen people who are in it for the money and who are in it for the love. The problem "I" have with you is, you don't respond to logical argument. I ask a question and you turn around and do what so many Liberals, I'm guessing your a liberal, do. You do not engage in conversation, you do not respond logically, and you don't listen to both sides. You simply regurgitate the same thing over and over. You have stated your opinion. The administrators on the forum, who I would guess disagree with you, have not deleted your posts, have let you make yourself heard, and have let you enjoy the FREEDOM of stating your opinions. Now that seems like the only thing that you want to do. So the reason I say "GET IN THE FIGHT OR GET OUT OF THE WAY", is because, your either on one side or the other. Since you obviously disagree with anyone,other than who you see fit, to own large snakes(another liberal/socialist view), I think everyone is tired of hearing you wine about how "we ruined the hobby". You said it, we heard it, we try to debate it , you regurgitate the same thing and don't debate or answer questions. So no one has kept you from being heard or shut you up, what logical reason, do you support this bill. If you don't support it then fight it. If your not going to pick a side, NOT DOING ANYTHING IS PICKING A SIDE, then I don't care what you have to say. YOUR IRRELEVANT. You have to be in the fight to be relevant. Your not in the hobby, so why are you here?
These are questions to ask yourself, I know the answer, DO YOU?

are getting deleted as soon as he posts them!

Something about "Scooby Doo" is gonna get you.....

Whatever that means......

Santa

>>Thats my question also.(who are you talking about) Vichris , I Joe Whigham, do not sell reptiles or breed them. I have kept them for about 15 years now and I have seen people who are in it for the money and who are in it for the love. The problem "I" have with you is, you don't respond to logical argument. I ask a question and you turn around and do what so many Liberals, I'm guessing your a liberal, do. You do not engage in conversation, you do not respond logically, and you don't listen to both sides. You simply regurgitate the same thing over and over. You have stated your opinion. The administrators on the forum, who I would guess disagree with you, have not deleted your posts, have let you make yourself heard, and have let you enjoy the FREEDOM of stating your opinions. Now that seems like the only thing that you want to do. So the reason I say "GET IN THE FIGHT OR GET OUT OF THE WAY", is because, your either on one side or the other. Since you obviously disagree with anyone,other than who you see fit, to own large snakes(another liberal/socialist view), I think everyone is tired of hearing you wine about how "we ruined the hobby". You said it, we heard it, we try to debate it , you regurgitate the same thing and don't debate or answer questions. So no one has kept you from being heard or shut you up, what logical reason, do you support this bill. If you don't support it then fight it. If your not going to pick a side, NOT DOING ANYTHING IS PICKING A SIDE, then I don't care what you have to say. YOUR IRRELEVANT. You have to be in the fight to be relevant. Your not in the hobby, so why are you here?
>>These are questions to ask yourself, I know the answer, DO YOU?
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Well, I guess he's worn out his welcome.

Share this video with everyone you know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiyqvuTxaEs
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1.3 Albino Burmese Pythons
1.0 Green Burmese Python Het Albino
0.1 Granite Burmese Python Het Albino
1.0 Albino Boa Constrictor
0.1 Hypo Boa Constrictor
0.1 Het Albino Boa Constrictor
1.2 Purple Albino Retic
1.0 Tiger Retic Het Albino
0.1 Sunfire Retic Het Albino
A lot Ball Pythons
A lot of Corn Snakes
A lot of King & Milk Snakes
0.1 Savannah Monitor
Yes I have the space for these reptiles and yes I am a responsible keeper and breeder!

We need a "Don't Tread on Me" banner with a giant retic on it.

>>Thats my question also.(who are you talking about) Vichris , I Joe Whigham, do not sell reptiles or breed them. I have kept them for about 15 years now and I have seen people who are in it for the money and who are in it for the love. The problem "I" have with you is, you don't respond to logical argument. I ask a question and you turn around and do what so many Liberals, I'm guessing your a liberal, do. You do not engage in conversation, you do not respond logically, and you don't listen to both sides. You simply regurgitate the same thing over and over. You have stated your opinion. The administrators on the forum, who I would guess disagree with you, have not deleted your posts, have let you make yourself heard, and have let you enjoy the FREEDOM of stating your opinions. Now that seems like the only thing that you want to do. So the reason I say "GET IN THE FIGHT OR GET OUT OF THE WAY", is because, your either on one side or the other. Since you obviously disagree with anyone,other than who you see fit, to own large snakes(another liberal/socialist view), I think everyone is tired of hearing you wine about how "we ruined the hobby". You said it, we heard it, we try to debate it , you regurgitate the same thing and don't debate or answer questions. So no one has kept you from being heard or shut you up, what logical reason, do you support this bill. If you don't support it then fight it. If your not going to pick a side, NOT DOING ANYTHING IS PICKING A SIDE, then I don't care what you have to say. YOUR IRRELEVANT. You have to be in the fight to be relevant. Your not in the hobby, so why are you here?
>>These are questions to ask yourself, I know the answer, DO YOU?

Ooooh you know the answer. You don't know squat. I was driven out of the hobby. Look through my posts. Where have I ever said I support the ban?????? Hmmmmmmm. I support self policing. I have not heard one of you talk about self restriction, stopping breeding or any other form of self control.

You are right about one thing though. I am in no way going to fight for you when all most of you have done is piss on the rest of the herp community. If I'm so IRRELEVANT why are you so fired up and responding to me (and several others I might add) The thing that pisses you all off is that I am RELEVANT. Look at the idiotic posts here. Look at all the name calling.

I will answer one question. "So why are you here"? I'm here because I care about the WHOLE hobby even this part. I bought my first baby burm in 1979. Problem is breeding and selling these big snakes is a huge problem whether you all want to admit it or not. ITS A FACT. And you in you face approach in defense just adds to your image problem. SORRY
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Vichris
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

Wow, yet again you prove my point. You were driven out of the hobby? By who? Herpers, the government, yourself? If it was the government, you must not have truely loved the hobby or you would be fighting any law that restricts ownership. This legistlation is not about controlling captive breeding its about eliminating it. The big breeders would probably support regulations on breeding,(license) it would only make the snakes thay sell more valuble when the average person quit doing it. Less snakes on the market equals more money. This legislation is to eliminate private ownership. YOU don't want anyone breeding or owning these snakes from what I can tell, so thats why I say you support it. The problem is, when the government gets involved they only want to be involved more. The breeders that you are bashing, you know nothing about. Look at the availability of these animals from the big breeders(which there aren't many of anymore), they do "self police". They are working on cutting edge morphs. That means less breeding stock, so less animals. I don't see anyone pumping out normal Retics or Burms. How many private breeders do think are working with retics and burms on a large scale? It's not a lot. It may seem like it to someone who is not in the hobby anymore, but go find out. Most normal burms and retics are imports. There are plenty of them that have prices for twenty different morphs on their website, but a lot of times there out of the animals or it's a very limited number. These guys also export there animals to other countries, so not all the animals they breed even get sold here. You don't know what your talking about because you generalize everything, and your out of touch with the hobby. I'm not mad at you, I feel sorry for you, that's why I respond to you. People attack you because you are attacking them. I have read your post, from the first one I read, you came on this forum , with anger resentment and malice. If you cared about the "whole hobby" you would fight for it. You don't care because your not in it. I don't understand you, again, you say you were driven out. I for one will never be driven out, not by others in the hobby or the government. They make take away my freedoms, and rights , but I'll always have a love and passion for these animals, that you don't understand. I'll always be in the hobby. I can't imagine you feel that way about anything. Just because your afraid to fight for what you beleive, doesn't mean the rest of us are.

Oh, and getting on a forum and anonymously posting a bunch of hate and contempt for a group that you can't stand is not fighting for anything. You are only proving my point with every word you type.

I really hope that somewhere down the line you realize the mistakes your making, before its to late. If you sit back and let them take away one part of this hobby, you are soarly mistaken if you think that they aren't going to go after more. Just look at our government, everyday they propose new laws to do just that.

kewl I sent a copy of your name and web link to Senator Nelson.
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Vichris
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

Hi Brian, pretty quick with names huh? Do you still live in AZ? I don't know why you just don't be honest with yourself and everyone else instead of playing the "BLAME GAME". I'm supporting everyone and I have NO DOG IN THIS FIGHT. IT'S JUST THE RIGHT THING TO DO.....We are being targeted by special interest groups that has little to do with keeping big snakes. The long term objective is NO HERP KEEPING AT ALL NOT JUST THE BIG 9...Shouldn't you introduce yourself to everyone you've been making veiled threats toward like myself and a few others here....You have every right to state your opinion but it's the way you do it and slither back under your rock I find offensive. Plus your cloak of cyber phantom has been pulled off
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Brian who?

>>Brian who?

Ya Brian who? Sniveling liberals!!!!!!
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Vichris
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

and are afraid to tell us your name...

Then you lecture us about make believe notions and call us Liberals.....

WOW! WOW! WOW!

I am not exactly clear on what makes a person actually a liberal but I think I may know a bit... Perhaps you need to investigate..

I will take a look...

–adjective
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.

Ok, if you take that literally it says we want the most freedoms....

Well, if you take another look it may also talk about the freedoms of the "common" man.... Their freedom to run around in the Everglades without being eaten by a Giant Beasty Burmese...

To not have animals in cages..... no pets being kept.....

Their version of freedoms is our version of lack of freedom....

That is a tricky one... I will further investigate so I can further lecture you and then watch you spit out some crazy comment about man killing snakes that has nothing to do with the discussion here...

SATAN selling my snakes to eat your family
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

The true definition of Liberals has long been forgotten by the Democrats.(who are also reffered to as Liberals). The more accurate term to describe them now would be Socialist. Look up socialist and see the definition, and see if that better describes our government an this guy" Vichris". It has to do with less freedom I assure you. Big government desciding whats best for everybody. It sounds good in theory but so did communism and see what happened there. The word Democracy is also not in our original draft of the Constitution, to my knowledge, but it is in the Communist Manifesto, written by Karl Marx. You just can"t argue freedom with some people , because they will gladly trade it off, to be less responsible for there own lives. Trying to teach this person about freedom and individual rights is like trying to teach a first grader about genetics. There to much else he has to learn first and he just doesn't get it.

let the Government tell you what is right and if you don't feel like being responsible they will take care of you!

Gee....

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy....

How about all of the people living off the system with this and that disability..... taking away from the people that have paid their taxes and EARNED their right to Social Security benefits...

Has anyone ever looked at what it takes to POINT out someone that is FAKING their disabilities? Next to IMPOSSIBLE! The Government does not seem interested...tax money mis-spent over and over again..

The strong Support the WEAK! Then making the strong WEAK?

Ughhh.....

Even SATAN hates this kind of LOGIC!!!!

>>The true definition of Liberals has long been forgotten by the Democrats.(who are also reffered to as Liberals). The more accurate term to describe them now would be Socialist. Look up socialist and see the definition, and see if that better describes our government an this guy" Vichris". It has to do with less freedom I assure you. Big government desciding whats best for everybody. It sounds good in theory but so did communism and see what happened there. The word Democracy is also not in our original draft of the Constitution, to my knowledge, but it is in the Communist Manifesto, written by Karl Marx. You just can"t argue freedom with some people , because they will gladly trade it off, to be less responsible for there own lives. Trying to teach this person about freedom and individual rights is like trying to teach a first grader about genetics. There to much else he has to learn first and he just doesn't get it.
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

democrats and liberals are two different things. most, if not all, liberals are democrats, not all democrats are liberals
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retic is king of kings

1.0 Tiger Retic
1.0 Albino Tiger Retic
0.1 Striped Tiger Retic (het albino)
0.1 Salmon Boa
1.0 Albino Boa
0.1 False Water Cobra

Hey Vchris,

If you will post your contact information I will personally purchase, package and ship you a head of cabbage with a greased hole in it. You'll know what to do.

Bill

>>I guess you haven't noticed that there are quite a number of others here and on the burm forum who not only agree with me but who are also becoming increasing vocal about it too.

Wow you all sound like a bunch of sniveling Democrats. I guess you all are content to go down with the ship.

Just so you all know there are also some others on the Anaconda forum who agree with me. Here's a link you sniveling liberals........ http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1769282,1771162

Keep on breeding and selling your big 5 or 9 or whatever. Some of us can see the ship listing to the port side. (Thats the left side for whiney liberals)
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Vichris
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius

WHAT???

I personally eat Liberals for lunch.....

If you are calling the group of us LIBERALS then you need to ask your MOMMY what exactly is a LIBERAL!!!

We are actually talking about retaining rights.... More like the NRA talking about a person's right to own a GUN! Is that Liberal mentality? I don't think it is.

Liberal mentality is to not pass out grades like A's B's or F's since it makes some of the kids feel inadequate and lowers their self esteem. Everyone should be the same. More like you really passed and you passed too but maybe if you can get around to it you should write more than your name on the test... please?

But, I am after all Satan, and what the HELL does SATAN really know?

I will tell you, SATAN is CONSERVATIVE!

SATAN

PS : I love your SELECTIVE responses and arguments.. PROOF that you only answer and argue things if you feel you can twist it around. Where are your MINIONS?

>>>>I guess you haven't noticed that there are quite a number of others here and on the burm forum who not only agree with me but who are also becoming increasing vocal about it too.
>>
>>Wow you all sound like a bunch of sniveling Democrats. I guess you all are content to go down with the ship.
>>
>>Just so you all know there are also some others on the Anaconda forum who agree with me. Here's a link you sniveling liberals........ http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1769282,1771162
>>
>>Keep on breeding and selling your big 5 or 9 or whatever. Some of us can see the ship listing to the port side. (Thats the left side for whiney liberals)
>>-----
>>Vichris
>>"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

BURN....

Each and every one of them til there are non of their kind...BURN!!

Ummmm.......

Call "out" the" people that make or give this hobby a bad name?

I would generally think that the people that visit this forum are not lugging around their pet retics, showing up at animal shelters for kittens or puppies... and making a spectacle of their pets. I would imagine they are actually a bit more thoughtful of their pets and they have yet to kill anyone with their beasts...yet.

"How many of the snakes that you sold have killed their owners"...

Isn't that what you said?
That's a good one.....

Your logic is just plain dreadful, your acts of blindly lashing out and spitting resentment and make believe do nothing for your point.

What you claim about your local show really stinks....but I don't think I hear much about things like that... In fact I don't think I have heard about a grouping of people that are so terrible that they shut the show down. So, what does that mean...you have a unique group of people that screwed up your local show? Possibly, does that mean that everyone else is like "those" select people?

Nope, Homie don't tink so!

The fact that I am even responding to your allegations is quite something too.....

You're pissed off.....direct your piss into the wind and take a deep breath.

What is life telling you?

SATAN....stay away from the cookies.

That one kills me.....>>>>Very well stated, and thus why we are losing the battle. Until we can convince people that snakes are like little kittens we are just pi....ing in the wind. It is not the "facts" that are killing us, but the "public relations and image."
>>>>
>>>>Dan
>>
>>It's your image that is killing you. And that is exactly what I have repeated over and over. You are not just killing yourselves you are killing the rest of the hobby. It not the FEW snakes let go, it's not the FEW that have killed their owner or the owners family or friends, its not the FEW who walk around with their big snake as an exhibit, or the FEW who feed their snake dogs and cats. It's the sum of the total. I haven't been to a herp show in two years. Our local show was shut down. I was so disgusted with the last show I sold my breeding colony and got out of the business. We had some very idiotic people at the previous show release a retic in the parking lot of the hotel the show was at, and it was run over. Frankly there were probably about 25% of the attendees that were foolish idiots. The next show federal Game and Fish, local game and fish, State tax and revenue, and city animal control all converged at the show and forced vendors to purchase licenses and permits. We no longer have a show. The local herp keepers suffered.
>>
>> When I lived in AZ I was accosted by local media because one of the members of the AZ Herp Association was feeding puppies and kittens to their burm. It was an embarassment to the whole club.......especially when it was on all three local news stations in Phoenix.
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>>Its funny how a FEW people can eff up a great hobby. A FEW people have screwed all of you and you did nothing. THAT is what really pisses me off. A FEW people have given you a bad "image" and pissed away your "public relations".
>>
>>A FEW people are still breeding and selling irresonsibly. (Look below at some of the posts) What are you gonna do about it. And what the hell are you doing about it KS.com
>>
>>Now I know a bunch of you think I'm part of PETA or HSUS or just some kind of liberal a-hole. I can't stand OBAMA and I think we should all vote for anyone but ANY incumbent.
>>
>>That being said its TIME for you all to grow some balls and call those out in YOUR portion of the hobby that reflect poorly on you and the rest of us.
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>>Vichris
>>"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane"- Marcus Aurelius
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

Satan has taken his soul and he is now locked in a small room with the long dead herpers and their viscious pet snakes forcing him to be constricted killed and swallowed over and over again thruout eternity......
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

liberals want a full government control, that is what this proposal is trying to do. why cant you see that. i am as far right extremist as you can get, and this ban will be detrimental to many people and the american economy. why cant you see that, either.
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retic is king of kings

1.0 Tiger Retic
1.0 Albino Tiger Retic
0.1 Striped Tiger Retic (het albino)
0.1 Salmon Boa
1.0 Albino Boa
0.1 False Water Cobra

And this is why we are losing the battle...because as much as we may dislike him...he will not be pursuaded with facts...so we must find a battle plan that deals with "idiots" like him. I wish I had the answers but I don't. If you ever want to see the power and influence of an idiot...watch a mob...it is people like Vicrhis leading the way...and thus why we are having to deal with the laws that make no since what so ever, because they are not laws based upon facts. When laws are not based upon reasons or facts, they then become unnecessary laws which then takes away our freedoms and thus establishes a tyranny. Ane we know...most tyrannies never surrender there power with "logical arguments or pursuasion."

Dan