Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In yet another attack on the reptile community, today Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar announced that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service will look to list the "Big 9" from the USGS survey published in October on the Lacey Act as injurious species:

Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar today announced the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service will propose to list the Burmese python and eight other large constrictor snakes that threaten the Everglades and other sensitive ecosystems as "injurious wildlife" under the Lacey Act.

Salazar made the announcement at the Port of New York, which serves as the largest point of entry in the nation for imports of wildlife and wildlife products. Last year, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Inspectors at John F. Kennedy International Airport handled more than 27, 000 separate wildlife shipments valued at more than $1 billion, or 16 percent of all U.S. wildlife imports.

The proposal, which will be open to public comment before Salazar makes a final decision, would prohibit importation and interstate transportation of the animals.

"The Burmese python and these other alien snakes are destroying some of our nation’s most treasured – and most fragile – ecosystems," Salazar said. "The Interior Department and states such as Florida are taking swift and common sense action to control and eliminate the populations of these snakes, but it is an uphill battle in ecosystems where they have no natural predators. If we are going to succeed, we must shut down the importation of the snakes and end the interstate commerce and transportation of them."

This allows us yet another opportunity to refute the bad science involved with both HR2811 and S373. The FWS will publish the proposed rule change in the federal register in early February.

Once it's published, the public will have sixty days to offer comment, after which the waiting game begins again.

As soon as the comment period opens, we'll let you know what action to take, and where.

Even now, it's not too late -- or too early! -- to make calls, reach out to your senators and representatives. Let them know this proposal is based on bad science, that you're part of the reptile community and that you vote!
USF&W to add "Big 9" to Lacey Act

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Cindy Steinle
phfaust@pethobbyist.com
PHFaust
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This will come up again next year but the animal will be TORTOISES. A majority of people on this forum's appathy will make a easy victory for the government. YOUR NEXT. Vic

firstly, PLEASE do not interpret this as any kind of flame or attack; i am only trying to better my understanding of the issue and how it relates to tortoises.

it cannot be argued that irresponsible ex-owners of large species of snakes have caused a situation where they are loose and destroying wildlife in florida. (the same is true of iguanas, and of domestic dogs and cats as well, but that's another issue).

however, i don't think that tortoises (or even most, if any, turtles) would fall under the restrictions of being injurious species because, for one thing, they are not aggressive (do you ever hear of small children or pets being eaten by sulcatas gone bad?) and, secondly, are not known to have feral populations (not being turned out in nearly the same numbers, and not being adapted to live in the affected wetlands anyway).

as far as the financial impact on the reptile trade goes, i can't argue with that reasoning. i just think it might be a bit much to speculate that they are "coming for our tortoises..." but again i'm very interested in hearing more explanation form this point of view.

"i'll give you my tortoise when you take her from my cold dead hands!"

Now thats what I wanted to here! Tortoises in Florida were the first reptile that the gov. tryed to make illegal. The case of the Heartwater Tic. The Herp. industry won that one by conviencing the Gov.and Cattle Ind. (BIG BUCKS)that the tortoises people would go underground in a black market and then they would lose control of the spread of the Tic. We (herp com.)proposed to police ourself on the tic issue. I'm not sure we could win that same case now. The Sulcuta is the "Grate Dane" of the reptile market. PETA and the HSUS WILL JUMP ON THIS for that reason. They will clame all kinds of things like released tortoises eating endangered plants or bugs etc. They will work Globle Warming into it like with the Pythons. Another reason is that HSUS has openly stated they are out to "OUTLAW ALL REPTILES." They get millions of dollors and care for NO animals. They pay lobbist tons of money and make and change law. They do this blantently even though its against the rules of their 501 c 3 Tax status. If we as a reptile community dont stand up against any reptile thats on the chopping block now, it will be other reptiles like tortoises later. They dont need a good reason. They are in POWER now,and excepted as serious supporters of our new Post America Administration. One other thing about the myth that all the Pythons being released by pet owners. HURRICANE ANDREW caused a mass release of Pythons all at once.(tens of thousands)All Burmese Pythons found in the Everglades were found to be by FSU bio. dept.from TWO gene pools. People have had pet Pythons for the last 40 years and they never colonised. There has never been a arrest or sitation for releasing a reptile in the history of the F.F.W.Com. Thanks for responding as I was quite disappointed in a "no show" on any post on this matter on the tortoise forum. Vic Morgan pic caption....Beware of my owner

i just looked up heartwater ticks and tortoises... i'd never even heard of that before now. interesting. so they had their undies all in a twist thinking of roving bands of feral sulcatas spreading ticks to cattle? and all the while they were allowing developers to essentially pay them off to bury gopher tortoises. jeez...

pic is of a young feral redfooted tortoise singlehandedly destroying the ecosystem of my friend's backyard...

Yes it was quite an ordeal. The State Agriculture inspected every known tortoise keeper for the Tic. Lucky for me there were no tics of that kind at my fascillity and as we walked to the last tortoise to check I asked what they would require if they find the Tic. The required solution was very involved. Land was sprayed, houses, barns, buildings ect. then repeated in three weeks. Tortoises had to be treated and pinned up for a long time, multiple weeks. Then NO KIDDING they wanted to release dozens of Hermans tortoises for three weeks to see if they got the Tics.(they said Hermans were big time travelers).I told them they better hope this last tortoise didnt have any because "there would be none of that going on here" And to get ready to fight me in court. They were nice and very respectfull of my animals. I had called the F.G.F.W.F.C to be there for me and to escourt them around sence I was a legal permit holder from them, and I wasnt sure what they would want to do. I had a female building a nest at the time and told them they could not go in that enclosure. The Wild life cops stood up for me and they let me inspect the nesting female. They had a ligitamit case with the Heartwater Tic, it was a killer of not only Cattle but wild Dear and other wildlife and farm animals. The Herp. comunity did a grate job of convincing them not to Ban them, but I was a little nervice about the speakers in our behalf as most were convicted Wildlife felons! They dont need a good reason now in the POST AMERICA OCCUPATION in Washington and their goons in power the HSUS and PETA. Let pet owners from all walks of life know whats going on. Vic

"Heartwater disease" became a major problem many years ago when large quantities of Leapord tortoises were being imported. Amblyomma (a.k.a the "pretty tick" was the responsible vector for this bacteria (Ehrlichea ruminantium). Major issue with this was that Heartwater disease is foreign to the U.S. and is a big deal in the economics of agriculture. It causes some pretty terrible things to cattle, and other ruminants.

I had no idea that they were investigating tortoise keepers in Florida, its pretty ridiculous. I am finishing up my 3rd year of veterinary school, and will be doing a year of clinical rotations at UF starting in May. I will be sure to ask about the legalities involved. What's funny about this is that on my board exam to practice veterinary medicine in the U.S. that I took last week had a question about this exact issue. I was so excited when I read the question (finally something I know the answer too). The question asked about the most common way it is imported into the US, and guess what, wild tortoises was not a choice.

These ticks that carry the rickettsial bacteria can be brought in on people, migratory birds (major source), and many other wild ruminants. The one or two shipments of leopard tortoise that were imported were the cause of your inconvenience. How long ago did this inspection occur?

The Veterinary community is also concerned about these ridiculous "threats" to take our animals, and our clients animals away. We are doing whatever we can to help battle this issue.

Josh

"Then NO KIDDING they wanted to release dozens of Hermans tortoises for three weeks to see if they got the Tics."

w...t...f??? wow, what a story! this has turned into quite an educational thread (for me, anyway)...

I cant remember what year but will get back. Late 90's 0r early 2000. Yes they were serious about the Hermans. They had never seen a collection this big and could see that it wasnt a case of bringing a few torts.inside for a few months. The Cattle people were loaded for bear and when they changed their case right then and there we new we were effective. Now they are inspected and certifyed to go out of state.Imports are inspected at entry like plants and importers are getting them de-ticed before export. I think some still get by so check your African torts close. I'm glad you explaned the Tic as it was a big deal for wild, pet and farm animals. I look closely now for tics on my Mt.Tortoises in which I never find any. I have two Sulcuta's and they get tics, but not the heartwater kind. I found a dead Cattle Egret in the Sulcuta enclosure right after the last Hurricane.(looked like it was slamed into a tree.)I'm close to the Intercoastel waters now. Several weeks later I fould Tics on the Sulcuta's. They were a S.American species. It looks like Sulcuta is a desirable host for Tics. Its a good idea to look close at your outside tortoises for tics. They are always up in the soft areas of the legs, and very hard to get off if you have a big strong animal. Good luck on becoming a Vet. If in Florida come on by. Vic

Vic M. is so right on this issue. If it were just facts and risk management analysis, we as keepers would probably endure. But sadly highly emotional people who skillfully use political manipulation of the press and legislators , creating hysteria etc. are very much against us keep ANY animals...you really would find some research on PETA and many other groups edifying/frightening. They are far better financed and organized than we, I have no idea of there numbers but it is considerable. There is almost nothing they won't do to further there agenda, and deceptions and bias are the rule.

Further, introduced vectors of agricultural pests etc. are a valid concern, and it can be prevented. There is a model for all this nonsense, the falconers came under unwanted scrutiny years ago, and they knew it was naiive and stupid to have the Govt. solve problems. They organized and established protocols and standards, and saved their esoteric and historically rich sport by doing so. With all the hysteria associated with reptiles, even tortoises, it is hard to keep people on the topic. Tortoise keepers, or failed tortoise keepers, do have some skeletons in the closet, not just snake keepers, i.e. the spread of URI in gopher tortoise populations, so concern may be warranted and we need to be proactive and guide intelligent legislation and ordinances and overview in the future. Vic H (west coast)