Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welp have gotten about 10 emails wondering who I am, a couple not so nice but thats how it goes. I understand how people come on out of nowhere and claim to be knowledgeable when they only have some book experience. So being lazy I decided to let you know who I am on here instead of sending out so many emails.

I used to post on here a while back and recently came back on.

My name is John Poe, am 41yrs old and having been a Police Officer for 17yrs, currently a shift Commander. Have been working with reptiles since childhood. Officially opened a rescue for reptiles in the early-mid 90's. Origianlly started as the Michigan Crodilian Rescue and was then changed to the S/E Michigan Reptile Rescue. We handle Crocodilians and Venomous Snakes only, there are numerous rescues that handle all the other types of reptiles. Been on Animal Planet a few times, most notably on Animal Cops Detroit. Recently have given training seminars to Animal Control Officers in Michigan, and am working on a state sertified course. Also working with the Michigan Legislature on creating a formal licensing process for keeping/housing large aggressive and venomous species of reptiles. I currently own several specimine of crocodilians and venomous snakes. Most notable are my C. Nil. which is approx. 9', 2 A. Miss. that are 8-8.5' each, O. Hannah (King Cobra) that just crossed the 12' mark, and a beautiful pair D. Viridis (Green Mamba) along with various assorted other species. I do not adopt out animals. They are either turned over to a sanctuary, zoological park, breeding program, reputable collector, or scientific programs.

Other than that married 20yrs, father of 12 yr old twins. I own an MMA Cage Fighting company promoting shows in Michigan, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Indianna, Tennessee, and coming soon to Florida.
Newspaper article

Thats a good rescue there are not many rescues for those reptiles. Here in Pa there are basically no laws on reptiles and I see parents buying and american alligator for their kids no idea of what they are doing for $40. I once saw a guy at a flea market selling them and bringing up the old lies of it grows only as big as its tank and their babies so you handle them alot they wont bite when they are bigger. He was selling starter kits it was a 10 gallon tank with a turtle dock. Some people care nothing about the animals.
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Tom
1.2.0 Leopard Gecko (dot, spot, casper)
0.0.1 California King Snake (booboo)
0.2.1 Sulcata Tortoise (tank, sahara and skittles)
0.0.2 Russian Tortoise (tito and lulu)
0.0.2 Red Ear Sliders (bernie and ernie)
0.0.1 Painted Turtles (moe)
0.0.1 Western Soft shell (Squirt)
1.1.0 Bearded Dragon (marshmellow and Sparkles )
0.0.1 Sumatran Water Monitor (Tiny)
1.0.0 Peachfront Conure (kermit)
0.1.0 Love Bird ( KIKI )
1.2.0 Dog (layla, Roxy and Rosco)
2.1.0 Crazy Cats (babe, sabastian, tinkerbell)
0.1.0 Lion Head Rabbit (daisy)
0.1.2 Ferret (jordan RIP, Cosmo and Izzy)
0.0.1 White Tree Frog (dumpy jr.)
0.0.1 Fire Belly Toad (ferdinan)
0.0.1 Spectacled caiman (wilbert)
0.0.3 Green Anoles
1.0.0 Bahama Anole
0.0.1 Giant Millipede
0.0.1 Aligator Snapping turtle
0.0.1 Mexican Red Knee Tarantula
0.0.1 Emporor Scorpion
1.0.0 Veiled Chameleon
0.0.1 Argentina Black and White Tegu
2.1.0 Columbian Red Tail Boas
Lots Of Fish

we are working to take care of a lot of those concerns.
Michigan doesnt bother with non-native species requiring the individual cities to regulate them. Two problems are the un-incorporated areas and the fact that most cities dont bother untl something happens.

I have a friend, who has a tiger breeding program. he currently has 8 adult tigers and roughly 12 cubs. he lives in what is a "No Mans" land. he is legit and very scientific in his approach. he has zoological quality enclosures. now picture someone doing the same, but, for money with no regulations they can just chain a 400# cat to a tree.

i collect a lot of crocodilians from waterways in michigan. that doesnt cover the venomous snakes being kept by teens. one case in point is where a 14 yr old bought a monacled cobra off the net with moms credit card. she discovered it when cleaning his room. thank god it was safely held in an aquarium, think if she had lifted the lid?

What does he do with the 12 cubs? Seems it would be hard to find good homes for them year after year. Although it is a big country and I am always amazed at what people are able to do.

The biggest hurdle in private ownership of large and dangerous reptiles past enclosures and care- which at times in the private sector exceeds that of public institutions- is simply time.

Large crocodilians and tortoises/turtles live a long time. I just turned 40 and we have a tremendous group of young,vibrant Nile crocodiles. If they all live 70 years obviously I am not likely to be the best caretaker at 110.

A public institution has to simply turn the reigns of animal care over to the next qualified individual. It's one of the reasons we are slowly changing our business structure so we can evolve into a similiar situation. It helps to ensure the animals will receive care throughout their life. In my case my son could inherit the business or if his interests differ sell it.

But in many cases I think this is a near insurmountable problem.

>>we are working to take care of a lot of those concerns.
>>Michigan doesnt bother with non-native species requiring the individual cities to regulate them. Two problems are the un-incorporated areas and the fact that most cities dont bother untl something happens.
>>
>>I have a friend, who has a tiger breeding program. he currently has 8 adult tigers and roughly 12 cubs. he lives in what is a "No Mans" land. he is legit and very scientific in his approach. he has zoological quality enclosures. now picture someone doing the same, but, for money with no regulations they can just chain a 400# cat to a tree.
>>
>>i collect a lot of crocodilians from waterways in michigan. that doesnt cover the venomous snakes being kept by teens. one case in point is where a 14 yr old bought a monacled cobra off the net with moms credit card. she discovered it when cleaning his room. thank god it was safely held in an aquarium, think if she had lifted the lid?
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CDieter
'Reason, observation, and experience; the holy trinity of science.'

Yea what does he do with the 12 cubs. Big cats are another problem with private ownership. Besides reptiles I do love the big cats but its hard to even see any in pa because laws are so strict when comes to mammals. Its a good thing in some instances and bad in others. The other problem is pa is not very clear on their laws regarding exotics in many instances.
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Tom
1.2.0 Leopard Gecko (dot, spot, casper)
0.0.1 California King Snake (booboo)
0.2.1 Sulcata Tortoise (tank, sahara and skittles)
0.0.2 Russian Tortoise (tito and lulu)
0.0.2 Red Ear Sliders (bernie and ernie)
0.0.1 Painted Turtles (moe)
0.0.1 Western Soft shell (Squirt)
1.1.0 Bearded Dragon (marshmellow and Sparkles )
0.0.1 Sumatran Water Monitor (Tiny)
1.0.0 Peachfront Conure (kermit)
0.1.0 Love Bird ( KIKI )
1.2.0 Dog (layla, Roxy and Rosco)
2.1.0 Crazy Cats (babe, sabastian, tinkerbell)
0.1.0 Lion Head Rabbit (daisy)
0.1.2 Ferret (jordan RIP, Cosmo and Izzy)
0.0.1 White Tree Frog (dumpy jr.)
0.0.1 Fire Belly Toad (ferdinan)
0.0.1 Spectacled caiman (wilbert)
0.0.3 Green Anoles
1.0.0 Bahama Anole
0.0.1 Giant Millipede
0.0.1 Aligator Snapping turtle
0.0.1 Mexican Red Knee Tarantula
0.0.1 Emporor Scorpion
1.0.0 Veiled Chameleon
0.0.1 Argentina Black and White Tegu
2.1.0 Columbian Red Tail Boas
Lots Of Fish

He will have them until they are ready to go to a zoological park or another breeding program. I know that some are the white bengals and the others are bengals. He's had siberians and other breeds in. Honestly I don't go anywhere near them. Well I will hold the cubs, but, not going near the bigguns. He's in some kind of tiger preservation thing.

As for the crocs yeah it takes quite a bit of time. For example, I got up at 3:30am this morn. Started the coffe pot, got my boots and coat on and went to our building. Mind you it is in the low teens here. Checked all of the enclosures and animals. Checked the temps and water levels and then had to go back in shower and be at the police dept by 5am. When I get off I will change go back in and update the logs for the day, feed the animals on rotation for today (rotation being the daily list of which animals are fed), do some cleaning and checking on all of the equipment. Go in have dinner go to bed and start all over tomorrow.

By time I wasn't necessarily referring to the daily ins and outs which I presume a good keeper does daily. But rather the fact that crocodilians are long lived and their care will extend perhaps well past when people are capable of caring for them. Public institutions have a large advantage over us private guys in this area.

And it's one that needs to be considered on our end.

>>He will have them until they are ready to go to a zoological park or another breeding program. I know that some are the white bengals and the others are bengals. He's had siberians and other breeds in. Honestly I don't go anywhere near them. Well I will hold the cubs, but, not going near the bigguns. He's in some kind of tiger preservation thing.
>>
>>As for the crocs yeah it takes quite a bit of time. For example, I got up at 3:30am this morn. Started the coffe pot, got my boots and coat on and went to our building. Mind you it is in the low teens here. Checked all of the enclosures and animals. Checked the temps and water levels and then had to go back in shower and be at the police dept by 5am. When I get off I will change go back in and update the logs for the day, feed the animals on rotation for today (rotation being the daily list of which animals are fed), do some cleaning and checking on all of the equipment. Go in have dinner go to bed and start all over tomorrow.
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CDieter
'Reason, observation, and experience; the holy trinity of science.'

My son seems to have figured ths out in my case, as he has already claimed all the crocs and most every other animal I have. I have plans to get him into law enforcement, not sure if he wants that but it does seem like he plans to be a crocologist
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Great Lakes Zoological

Tell him to go into medical or something like that. The law enforcement field is so overcrowded and a lot of communities (nationwide) are going away from a full time force. They supplement with a lot of part timers and a handfull of full timers. Part timers get no benefits, no pension, no contract, and work for an average of $15 an hour. In Michigan we have something like 3,000 people who have gone through the academy and can't find jobs, and academies are still pumping out people.

Tell all those future police to pack up and move to Texas. We can absorb 3000 and not even notice.

My brothers are both officers back in PA, man do they have some benefits.
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CDieter
'Reason, observation, and experience; the holy trinity of science.'

Joe's right most of the PD's here hire in with no benefits and they let you go before you become perm and start getting your benefits .. saves them a lot of money!

I never knew you had blue in your blood Chris .... surprisingly so do I, Detroit PD was my first real adult job (didnt do it long tho) a lot of my family is in LE, cousin is a high profile drug/gun prosecuter in Oakland County, uncle in Madison Heights PD, Uncle in Centerline PD, Uncle in FBI, bro in-law in Warren PD, etc.. My son is the one who will have to pick up the slack for me
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Speaking of Texas ...
Man San Antonio is doing some amazing work with there Tomistoma the last couple years!! Wow, 5 baby Tomistoma!!
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Great Lakes Zoological

Wow nice to see some fellow thin blue liner people here.

Yeah the LE scene in Michigan is a disgrace, however, FLORIDA is always on a hiring kick.

My background is pretty deep, as well, grandfather retired as Sheriff in KY, Father was Deputy Sheriff and then went on to form and retire as chief of plant Police, have an uncle who is a post commander with Ohio Highway Patrol, His 2 sons and daughter are OHP Troopers as well.

Me...can't wait to retire to Tennessee.

Oh I wasn't offended or trying to respond on your post just showing an example of how my days go.

I know a lot of people come on with their first animal and think about doing the rescue/sanctuary end of it and really don't know how much of your life it takes. Like having someone fill in when I go on vacation, when the heater goes out and Im out there every hour checking the wood burner, or when you work a double and still have to take care of things at home.

I remember you Joe, and I know your not a newbie ... you and I talked a bit years back about possibly helping you get a big hybrid croc from Thailand.

My son is young still, 10 ... cant even get him in a explorer program until he is 14, I just think its a good idea to steer him in the that direction, even if he doesnt get into it career wise it will instill some positives that will help him down the road im sure ... plus I have a few friends in the business that could help him if he did decide to go that route career wise.

But heck like I said he is young ... he mainly wants to be either: a rapper or a street racer (to much emenem & fast and furious movies) ... but at least he knows he wants to keep exotics
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Great Lakes Zoological

A state wide license would solve all of this ... but the state reg would have to be drafted correctly. To make sure it makes things better and not worse. The key is with through language in the draft by those familiar with reptiles, a complete listing of species covered (not a partial listing that allows debate), and it must be designed so that the people who are qualified to possess such animals are able to do so, also the excetions should be correct.

I think if something like this if put into motion and done correctly would be supported by the majority of serious keepers & professionals. Pet shops probably wont like it. Pet keepers probably wont care. The big thing is having it done correctly so that it doesnt turn into a which hunt for reptiles, trying to ban them, or make the permit requirments rediculous, and the state reg would have to trump any city regs and not allow city regs to add further restrictions.

Most of the Cities that do have regs allow exception to AZA institutions, DNR permit holders, bonifid scientific purpose and bonified educational purpose, etc..

The problem with all of this is that they do not define bonified scientific or bonified educational purpose. If you call one of thee Cities and tell them your thinking of relocating to there City and that you run a Reptile Educational program (licensed business) where as you visit local schools and so forth, the City will tell you that this is not a exception to there regulation ... If you ask them to define bonified educational purpose you will get the run around.

Another problem with the exception is that even though many Cities allow exception to those holdind species under DNR permit, they dont have a exception for those holding species under federal permit
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Great Lakes Zoological

Not that im big on restricting people or there animals BUT I also believe that Michigan should have a formal licensing that extends state wide and trumps city regs.

Michigan has no regs regarding reptiles but cities have local regs built into the city code ... these city regs are all over the place, dont make much sence, are vague at best and leave lots of loopholes eitherway. A state wide license is the way to go plus it will provide some extra state funding possibly even city funding, could probably set something up similar to the system in place now by the DNR for wolfs and some other big cat species, DNR collects yearly fees for the permit and the citys collect a small inspection fee once or twice a year ... and it will keep some animals out of some peoples hands that dont belong having them.

Not really sure how one would go about such setting up such licensing, and im sure the folks who want to ban everything will try and railroad it and change the purpose ... and im sure even the people that would benefit from the licensing would oppose it.

Its a big mess and needs something state wide, we could model Florida's permit system or even the city of Cleveland Ohio has a pretty good permit system.

I would be happy to help with this, sooner or later it has to be done, better to have it set and put into place by people who actually care about these animals and dont want to see them outright banned.
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Great Lakes Zoological

I mean really think about it ... one city will allow venomous reptiles, large constrictors, crocs and whatever ...

then a mile away or even across the street in the next city venomous is prohibited, crocs are prohibited and constrictors over 6ft are prohibited, but its ok for pet stores to sell burms, retics, etc. as long as there under 6ft ...

then a mile away or even across the street in the next city ... everything is ok to have except venomous

then a mile away or even across the street in the next city its ok for pet stores to sell crocs but people are not allowed to keep them within the city

Get my point, its pretty retarted and a responsible keeper can become a law breaker quit easy, even just transporting though one city to another could be a big problem or cause one to be a law breaker

Most of these citys regs are so poorly writen that im sure they could be fought, but who wants to be the one to do something wrong and then try to fight it? Also these city regs leave areas wide open which would allow keeping some species that would have the mayor $hitting bricks, and some areas to closed up that a beared dragon is "probably" illegal
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Great Lakes Zoological