Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Snowed in and watching Animal Planet today...the host of this show stated he was out looking for the "endangered" gaboon viper. Spends half his time looking up in the trees he's walking under. Is AP really that desperate for ratings that they've got to come up with some showboat who obviously has no idea what he's talking about, and send him out to milk wild snakes who are pretty much overly abundant in the captive world? Every time I go to the Columbia Repticon show, I see at least a couple hundred Gaboons. If they're so endangered, why is it I can pick up an '09 for $75?

In case you didn't know, I also just learned from Animal Planet, that Gaboons are so big, they can even eat Antelope.

>>In case you didn't know, I also just learned from Animal Planet, that Gaboons are so big, they can even eat Antelope.

That is in reference to the Royal Antelope, which is a very small mammal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Antelope
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Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
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Venomics Research Laboratory,
Department of Biochemistry,
Bio21 Institute,
University of Melbourne
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http://www.venomdoc.com

Gaboons are known to eat Neotragus antelope. They're a small species about the size of a racoon.

Oh, I figured he was talking about a dwarf species. But I find it downright irresponsible to put a figure on national television who just makes the blanket statement "Gaboons are the largest vipers in Africa, they get so big, they're even known to eat Antelope." Right after he says, "Gaboons are critically endangered, we'll be lucky if we see one". They're not even threatened, Much less "critically Endangered." I'm all about trying to raise the human race's consciouness about the world around them, but there are better ways to do it.

I would definitely agree that the editors of the show made little effort to detail their comments, and this only serves to hurt their credibility. You are correct in that certain species of the antelope genus Neotragus are occasionally taken by large adult gaboons. However this usually occurs with the smaller northern species and involves the larger Western Gaboon, B. g. rhinoceros. Adult Neotragus in the northern part of their range in central and west Africa don't get any larger than a house cat. Adult Neotragus in the southern area of their range, where the show was filmed, are slightly larger and would be too much for even an adult Eastern Gaboon, B. g. gabonica, however they could take a young one. It was obvious that the viper he captured was an Eastern, and he should have definitely qualified his statements.

In many areas of southern Africa where the show was filmed, the Eastern Gaboon, B. g. gabonica, is considered endangered as habitat destruction has constricted its former range considerably. I believe Gaboon populations in central and western Africa are in better condition. I agree that these details should have been made more available within the context of this episode.

Kelly

Actually Gaboons in South Africa ONLY live in a small area of N. E. Coastal Forest and are extremely RARE there. Having said that I totaly agree with other posts....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

So, let me ask this then (not trying to start an argument, really just want some clarification from other members of the herp community.) Should we consider the gaboons in South Africa "endangered" just because there aren't as many in that particular part of the continent? I ask because here in NC American Aliigators are still considered "endangered" because they aren't as prevalent here as say, in Florida. To me, that doesn't make them endangered, it just means our state is at the northernmost part of their natural range. It's like saying Kangaroos are endangered in NC as well...because we only have a few (in zoos). Sorry if all that comes WAY out of left field, but it's something that's been driving me crazy for a while, because it's a driving force behind the legislation in NC (In other words, someone can own a Saltwater Crocodile here, but can't own an American Alligator.)

They are NOT endangered as a species or subspecies and should NOT be portrayed as such without addressing the facts such as specific locales etc. You are correct....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Also said that Bitis venom was being used for a pain control research . Which as far as I know is not true . Also that a lot of people die from there bite. Visser and Carpenter reported in 1977 that there were two of seven clinical reports that suggested that envenomation was life threatening.Mallow, Ludwig and Nilson state in their book that they can not find a report of a fatal bite. Not to say there has not been fatal bites but if this snake was as much of a health risk to natives there would be more reports of fatal bites.More people are probably bitten by this snake in captivity then in the wild.

Jim Harrison

I've been wondering if the venom milked in the field the way it's done on the show is really worth anything for research...

It's been posted on venomous forums that venom extraction needs to be done in a sterile environment.

Field extractions when studying venoms of wild populations can be done . But for drug usage it is only a small window into the venoms. If you find something for a research project for a drug you must be able to repeat the same venom factor for the drug company. Releasing the animal removes this factor. Also for a venom to be used for a human medicine you must provide the closes to sterile venom you can. This can only be done in a lab and not in the field.
Wild Con is about show business and has little to do with real research. The public has no idea about venom so anyone willing to handle a snake becomes an "expert". The show likes to say this is not a stunt its my job then he jumps out of a plane. In all my years in the field and extracting venom I have never jumped out of a plane. I have been in planes that I thought I might have to jump out of but never did. Its a stunt just like being in a box filled with a few venomous and non venomous snakes. Ratings are the goal not education.

Jim Harrison

Very little if any of that is true. The show must have a "story line" however. I know Don well and he's a good guy but most of that stuff is just for the show and he's NOT the ONLY one who does that kind of stuff. Don's just the new kid on the block. He is going to interesting places however...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Jim in West Africa natives handle Gaboons almost like harmless snakes as they almost NEVER bite anybody. Fat Tail Gecko's on the other hand are considered deadly poisonous by many people that just pick up Gaboons. GO FIGURE...LOL
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I still have people in Kentucky that think bluetailed skinks (Five-lined) are venomous. Hard to educate people that don't want to listen.

It is not true that people handle Gaboons like harmless snakes. They know Gaboons are very venomous, but will not harm unless threatened. They also believe a gaboon will only bite a person, if he has a spell cast on him. Africans believe a lot in witchcraft,  and believe a witch can use a gaboon viper to kill someone.
The Fat Tail is considered a very fearsome creature.  They believe anyone bitten by a Fat tail will die. In some areas, they believe one must smear his or her whole body with feces from  a very old woman, or else will die from a fat tail bite.

, my experience has been that the hunters are all very cautious (most scared) when dealing with anything venomous, Nobody else touches reptiles. The pic. was recently sent to me from my friend in Senegal. He collects many snakes and takes them all around (by Bus) to the different city's to sell for "magic". The venomouse stuff gets beheaded , the live stuff is mostly rocks and balls. BIG MAGIC !

Ernie Eison
WESTWOOD ACRES REPTILE FARM INC.

In Liberia it is TRUE that most places I went had little to NO fear of Gaboons and readily picked them up. These same people were terrified of Fat Tail Gecko's. Majic is a HUGE belief by everyone. Many times called ju ju...Don't CALL me a liar Ernie. I get sick of your snide comments. If you want to call me a liar at least have the cojones to do it to my face. Of course your NOT well known for that....It is true the average person is afraid of all snakes but the hunters, sellers, etc treated Gaboons almost with contempt and the same people were horrified by the Gecko's...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Tom who do you think 99.9% of us would believe we have your back and trust in your extensive years in the reptile biz.And that was just rude any way .In a common exchange of information was uncalled for.
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Archie Bottoms

And that was just rude any way .In a common exchange of information was uncalled for.

It could be said , The only post that falls under the above description was the overly defensive, clumsy and even bullying attempt at a response.

The first paragraph in my initial post was a direct quote as told to me (today) by a well known West African reptile trader. I was talking with him today and asked if he had ever seen "gaboon handlers" I then shot him an email. Ive known this person a long time and he is a true West African born and raised who spends a lot of time traveling from country to country working in the animal trade, working with the hunters, villagers etc. everywhere. He knows what's up when talking about West Africa, reptiles and everything else that goes on there . I didn't call anyone a liar, the people of Africa did when I emailed what was said and asked if this was how it was.

The second paragraph was as noted based on my personal experienced also I included a recent photograph sent to me by a friend in Senegal who makes his living catching snakes and selling them in the various city's for magic, and made note of what goes on with him. Everything I posted was factual and well within the boundaries of "common exchange of information. "

There was nothing rude, uncalled for, or snide about any of it, past the fact that an over bearing, hot heads ego was bruised. Something he IS known for , My direct and very blunt honesty is distrsessful to some particularly those that are phony or like to fudge things ......................

Below is the exact email exchange along with the date and time referenced to in the first paragraph of this post. First the sent email followed by the reponse from West Africa.

Date: 2/1/2010 3:06:17 PM Eastern Standard Time

This is what was siad about the locals and the gaboons what do you think?

Jim in West Africa natives handle Gaboons almost like harmless snakes as they almost NEVER bite anybody. Fat Tail Gecko's on the other hand are considered deadly poisonous by many people that just pick up Gaboons. GO FIGURE...LOL
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Have you ever heard of anything like this? This doesn't seem right, sort of the opposite, It doesn't fit in with my experience of what goes on,  you guys are scared of this stuff. LOL.

Ernie

Date: 2/1/2010 4:07:34 PM Eastern Standard Time

Ernie, LOL
It is not true people handel Gaboons like harmless snakes. They know Gaboons are very venomous, but will not harm unless threatened. They also believe a gaboon will only bite a person, if he has a spell cast on him. Africans believe a lot in witchcraft,  and believe a witch can use a gaboon viper to kill someone .
Fat Tail is considered a very fearsome creature.  They believe anyone bitten by Fat tail will die. In some areas, they believe one must smear his or her whole body with feces from  a very old woman, or else will die from fat tail bite.

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Ernie Eison
WESTWOOD ACRES REPTILE FARM INC.

Yes you are a RUDE 40 something year old guy with a banty rooster complex. Are you basing what you said on what some unknown or not named person in West Africa supposedly told you? Have you actually been there or are you basing your rude answer on your imaginary cyber phantom friend? Ernie your just NOT worth arguing with with because it's a waste of my time to match wits with an unarmed opponent. David Westbrook, the former Director of the Little Rock Zoo and lifelong AZA member told another friend of mine tonight he experienced conditions similar to me but in another part of Africa. What is wrong with you? This is a forum to exchange ideas NOT to ruffle your tiny little wing feathers and crow! Just grow up Ernie and if you try to do your reptile stuff a little better maybe someone will actually know who you are. I've done this a long time and only began to hear you ruffle and crow about 7-8 years ago although you claim to be some long term veteran in the Herp trenches from 30 plus years ago. Relax man and try to have fun. If you don't stop the crowing and ruffling the fox might hear you and lets face it you ain't a very big Banty Rooster even. Your hens will be Fox fodder and the Farmer will get mad at you and Leghorn will jump in and take your place[ SORRY, FORGOT YOU HAVE NEVER HAD ANY HENS]....LOL...I've always had fun enjoying the critters and herpers alike. Marty Capron, a friend of over 30 years, just left here 2 days ago and headed back to KS. Shoot I've known ARCHIE, JIM, AND OTHERS FOR JUST AS LONG. THESE RELATIONSHIPS EXTEND WAY BEYOND CUSTOMER\CLIENT STUFF. lIGHTEN UP AND NEVER SAY NEVER and for goodness sakes stop pretending your a big rooster...HA.HA..cockle doodle doo...I've been thrown out of countries before but never had all of West Africa call me a liar before so it's a first for me. Thanks for enlightening me with that nugget of knowledge...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

"I'm all about trying to raise the human race's consciouness about the world around them, but there are better ways to do it."

Like what?

Well to start with, how about providing more accurate information? I think it's a great idea for people to learn more about snakes; especially living in the "bible belt" where when I ask someone why they are afraid of snakes, 9 times out of 10, i get an answer along the lines of, "cuz they're the DEVIL". Or even better, "they're just gross." Well, so are people. In fact, people are far more disgusting and horrible then snakes will ever be, but I don't go around, shrieking every time I see a baby. I mean, maybe I should, but I don't. But by hyping out Gaboon vipers to be these man killing, hyper-endangered, giant antelope eating animals, isn't helping anyone's cause, much less ours. And I completely get the idea that a large gaboon could eat a baby antelope from one of the dwarf species. But that should be clarified for the viewer. Not, "These snakes get so big, they eat antelope." That's right up there with making a generalized statement like "snakes eat people." Sure, you might be able to find an instance of that happening somewhere in the history of snakes and people, but it's not the norm.