Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Mr. Rochford,
This is a statement that you made in another thread here in the Burm Forum on Kingsnake.

"I hope everyone understands the delay and knows we're not trying to hide anything to get the legislation passed. I don't even want the legislation to pass.

Mike"

Because, I feel you deserve some benefit of the doubt, I will not call you a liar, but I will say, I find your statement hard to believe.

I happen to know one of the individuals that you have spoke of here in the Burm Forum and you work to some degree with this person. (He has not spoken in this forum, so I will not say which person it is, but if he does speak, he will then open himself up to the firing squad as you have.) The person that I speak of is totally against the ownership of the big snakes and he is in on all of these studies. He is very influential in the community, and is well respected. Funny thing is, this person has owned a lot of different snakes throughout the years.

If your claim is true, that you don't want to see this legislation pass, then why is all of the media so negative and biased? Everything that I have seen or heard, whether written, said, sugested, implied, documented, accused, acuired, imagined, speculated, or what have you has always been against the snakes, ownership of the snakes, personal rights, reptile owners in general, and a complete disrespect to the reptile community as a whole. Why is that?

I will give you my opinion. You as well as the others in all of these studies have to answer to someone. You and those you answer to all have their own opinion, so all of your documentation is going to conform to your biased opinion. You and others like you want to deliberately put fear into the general public to further the cause of banning the big snakes. If this were not true you and your colleages would do something to change the public perseption that these big snakes are bad and they are going to invade the country and eat or kill everything in their path.

Do you Mr. Rochford, or any of your colleages, employers, or institutions recieve any money from any of the animals rights groups? I would be willing to bet that someone somewhere does.

If you are for the ownership of these snakes you have not shown that to be true. Why can't you and others like you speak publically about the truth and the reality of the situation. You and others like you know and have known that these snakes cannot live in cold climates, yet you constently allow bad press to scare and form negative opinions in the general public.

Hurricane Andrew released most of those big snakes and you and others like you know it. But you and others like you continue to portray it as being irresponsible snake owners. Not one person has been caught releasing a Burm into the Everglades, but it has been proven that Hurricane Andrew destroyed reptile businesses and all types of structures that housed Burmes and other wildlife, therefore releasing these animals into the wild.

Why can't you people start making press appearences telling people that they don't need to worry about a giant snake invasion? If you and others like you don't start telling the truth, there is only one answer as to why, it's because you don't want the truth to be known.

I believe Mike put the onus for safely housing pythons (as makes sense) on the python owners themselves.

IF I'm not mistaken, however, post-Hurricane Andrew investigations indicated that many buildings did not meet code, in some cases because the inspectors were dishonest.

Not sure if reptile facilities were some of those "unsafe" buildings, but a lot of unsuspecting people were given a false sense of security by code inspectors, and those people (victims, really) should not be considered irresponsible.

Well, when you live in a trailer in a hurricane prone zone, should you not be allowed to own a Burm? I'm just posing the question.
My take is a bond/liability insurance. Same as with operating a motor vehicle. Hell, we could certainly get the insurance industry on our side with this. Determining the code worthiness of the purchaser/owner is just not practical. Sounds like what you are suggesting. With a criticism should come a solution.
I will also say that a title/paperwork should go with snake from cradle to grave, same as a motor vehicle, same as the micro chip, same as the permit. Undoubtedly, we are moving that way. An untitled snake would just be unsaleable legally.
My thoughts/opinion only. I'm for responsible ownership.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I was just making the point that some people who believed they were up to code weren't through no fault of their own (trusting the honesty of code inspectors). And this includes structures other than mobile/manufactured homes.

I have no solutions, but like your ideas (what good does that do?). Insurance industry? My home owner's insurance will drop me if I get a dog that has ANY pitbull in it. Who's to say they wouldn't do the same for the giant constrictors (which I don't keep)?

I always thought you could create a skin/meat trade for the unwanteds like they do with alley gators nowadays.

I was reading all of those posts and with all due respect to Mr. Rochford I think he was a bit harsh on people living in that area at the time of Andrew. That hurricane was a lot worse than anyone expected and a lot of the standards people have for building codes and for dealing with hurricanes in this state are the result of that storm. I know one guy who lived in that area during that time and he decided to tough it out in his house. According to him the storm turned his house around on it's foundation (while he and his family were in it). It freaked him out so bad that now he will only live near the center of the state and anytime there is even a hint of a storm coming through he evacuates the state entirely. I have been through several hurricanes myself including Alan in Texas in '81 (in a house trailer.) and the 3 (4?,5? we lost count here) that hit in 2004. I have not seen anything as bad as what people went through during Andrew.
Instead blaming those people for mistakes we should learn from them and move on.

Unintentional release due to a catastrophe is very different then intentional release by an irresponsible pet owner. It is still yet to be proven how the burms became established in the everglades, but this point is rarely made in the media. The point that is being made is that the general public can not be trusted as owners.

If one reviews the common themes found in the press it always comes down to pet owners dumping their pets. This is a critical plank in the foundation for arguing against private ownership of large constrictors. The other must be how dangerous they are to the public because that seems to be a common theme as well.

Here is the University of Florida fact sheet which is where many of the media outlets have drawn their talking points from.

"Unable to handle their giant snakes, and unable to find new homes for them, some owners illegally release them into the wild."

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/uw286

Not to change the subject much, but the South Florida Building Code is a requirement to 125 mile per hour wind. We will never know exactly what Andrew got up to in some areas because the wind meter was destroyed moments after recording a gust of 169mph. Basically, any hurricane Cat 2 is beyond the requirements of the building code, so a Cat four or five will be total destruction of buildings. It isn’t that they aren’t made to code, the hurricanes exceed the code many fold. I was down in Homestead right after Andrew and pictures or images on your TV screen can never capture the jaw dropping devastation as you approached the worst areas. The absolute worst, was as if a gigantic squeegee just leveled the ground. It wasn’t that the buildings were gone, the hedges, trees, plants, everything was gone. On tv it looks like they are showing an empty field, and you’re wondering why show that let’s see some damage, but that’s where buildings use to be. If you can’t tell, this was 1992 and it still blows my mind what I saw there. Indescribable really.

Hurricane Andrew was the most powerful hurricane to hit the U.S. since the beginning of keeping records. It was a full blown catagory 5 when it hit land. The winds were over 200 miles an hour. There aren't many structures that can take a force like that.

What I am wondering is why Mr. Rochford has not responded.

I've just been busy with Valentine's day and work but I've responded now.

Mike

Fair enough and maybe I was a bit harsh but the point I'm trying to make is that nobody is going to accept excuses for new species becoming established, even if it's a pretty understandable one. It's not a rule I'm making up to be an a-hole, it's just reality. Like you said, I think we should learn from this and move on but part of that means we have to accept that a hurricane is not an acceptable excuse in the future and I'm not sure everyone is on that same page yet.

Mike

All holders of ROC and venomous permits here in Florida MUST have and submit a wriiten natural disaster plan in the event of another Hurricane or whatever kind of disater it is. We had to include maps of our facilities and our plans of action should the situation arise where it becomes possible for escapes beyond our control to occur....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

That's true. I guess people are required to be on the same page even if they don't want to be. I think that's an acceptable solution.

Mike

Even back in the day I always had lg wooden boxes that locked that were kept to bag up venomous herps and lock them in long before it was mandatory only with the public safety in mind. I was always cautious with venomous herps involving every aspect of their care. In all my years we only had ONE venomous bite with an employee and I was bitten only twice and both bites thru bags NOT while handling them. Only once did we actually pack up venomous and that was when a Hurricane was predicted to hit and changed course and missed us. Still better to be safe than sorry...ROC herps were NOT a concern back then and no plan was initiated. I've had venomous here BEFORE you even had to be permitted to do so...LOL
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Sounds like you are on top of things. Good to hear it! I hope people follow your lead if they aren't already that careful themselves.

Mike

It didn't sound like you were aware of the current laws concerning Reptiles of Concern (ROC's)in the State of Florida in your responses to Tom Crutchfield. It hasn't been a requirement long enough to evaluate it's effectiveness but do you think adding more laws to already very good laws is the answer? Do you honestly think you will have better compliance with additional, more restrictive laws or will the same people that are ignoring the current laws continue to do so. I can't see how Florida’s Senate Environmental Preservation and Conservation Committee is currently considering Senate bill 318 to prohibit certain large constrictor snakes as pets in the state while the ink that wrote the current laws concerning ROC's is still wet!! It defies logic to think you can legislate additional compliance at the risk of alienating a whole community that will step up and help in any way we can to continue doing what we do. The tools are already in place to enforce compliance with the ROC.....why are more needed? And I don't even want to get started on the logic of S373...........
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Tom Burke
www.BurkeReptiles.com

You're right...

I think the FL regs are good. I honestly forgot about them but I did know they exist. I think there may be other states that should consider similar laws but exactly which states should do it are certainly up for debate. Alaska should be safe though.

Mike

Georgia tried to pass a law based off of Florida's current legislation. It made no sense what so ever! We do not have a problem in Georgia, in fact microchipping and requiring an expensive licensing fee would create the very conditions necessary to establish an invasive species. If the requirements of the laws or regulations are not easily achievable, if they are not reasonable, then "at risk pet owners" will have an excuse to dump them in mass! Once regulations take affect how can a pet owner re-home his pet? Could you imagine what would happen if we started requiring microchipping and a $100 plus annual licensing fee in order to keep a cat? The market will be flooded with snakes and who in their right mind would hand over their pet to the Government when they know that the animal will be euthanized.

And what is the justification? Animal control records do not indicate a public threat, especially when compared to dogs and cats. Animal Damage Control (nuisance wild life trapping) and shelter records (Georgia requires the reporting of every animal trapped or collected) doesn't indicate a problem with loose or feral snakes either. There just isn't any factual justification, just accusations in the form of "scientific support":

"Unable to handle their giant snakes, and unable to find new homes for them, some owners illegally release them into the wild." http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/uw286

Where is the justification for such a statement? Granted, pet dumping is a contributing factor, but to what extent and what does the data say to support such a claim? And, if this is the basis to ruin an industry and kill thousands of wanted pets that have lived for years in suitable homes then someone had better start backing up such a statement.

I can see that the pet trade from a point of view could be considered resposible for the wild burms, after all they were imported for the reason of making them pets, is that correct? But whats's unfair is the fact that every time we turn around, pet owners are continously being blamed for these wild burms due to illegally releasing them, that just isn't true. All that does is makes the entire herp community look like a bunch of irresponsible pet owners and that is wrong. It continues to form a negative opinion in the general publics minds that we are nothing but bad people who don't care about the envirnement, laws, rules, and regulations and whatever else you can think of.

People are not driving down there and releasing these animals into the wild. And what kills me is, why in the hell is there so many feral cats down there that are being fed by tax payers money, and how come that isn't all over the media. Cats do more damage then those burms will ever do. In fact, this is my opinion, but I believe the burms aren't actually hurting anything. Yes, they eat, but they are being eaten also. So, they too are a part of the food chain.

People don't deserve to loose there rights because of the cruelty that mother nature unleashed. Herpers don't deserve to be put down over and over without the mention of the hurricane. Everywhere I go I hear from people how this is all the fault of bad pet owners, and we did it to ourselves. That's crap, It's funny how we are supposed to show compasion for this and that, but we, the herp community, never receive it. All we see about us are lies and more lies, they just never stop.

This country was founded on the philosophy of "We the people". This county and our government have forgotten what this country stands for. We the people get crapped on by "Those the few", or "Those who can pay the most money", who are elected into some kind of office. We are no longer living in a country that is "For the people".

What all of you people who are against us don't realize is that one day your hobby, business, hopes, dreams, desires, and wishes may some day be put on the chopping block like what is happening now with reptiles. What will you do then? Once the door is open, where does it stop?

Don't push your lifestyle on me, and don't take away my lifestyle just because you don't like it. I got news for you, I don't care what you have, what you do (as long as it doesn't effect me), who you do it with, how you do it, and so on.

We are not hurting anyone, and don't say snakes kill people. More people are killed by dogs in one year then have ever been killed by snakes in the U.S.

Live and let live.

The phrases that I have used are in general and not necessarily aimed at Mike.

The FWC was actually proposing going after feral cats before they started picking on us. It turned out to be a bit of a public relations nightmare for them as all the cat lovers screamed about it. I think they got the same kind of resistance when they proposed going after the feral monkeys at silver springs. People are funny like that they love furry things that really do cause problems and in the case of monkeys potentially seriously injure you and they hate snakes which (excepting venomous) in the scheme of things are really all that dangerous.
I also seem to think that there are laws protecting feral horses on federal lands out west which really do inflict ecological damage on the envinroment. go figure

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

February 10, 2010

Contact:
Sue Wallis
307 680 8515
sue.wallis@unitedorgsofthehorse.org

President's Budget Proposal Includes Separate $42.5 Million Request for Wild Horse Preserve

The proposed $75.7 million 2010 BLM budget proposal includes a funding request for a wild horse preserve to be built in the Midwest or Eastern portion of the United States.

CHEYENNE - The federal government already owns 90% of Nevada, 50% of Wyoming, and comparable percentages of every Western state--and yet they are now proposing a massive land grab in the Midwest and East. All to house excess feral horses that they do not have the moral fortitude necessary to control.

The Bureau of Land Management's Wild Horse and Burro Program already spends 75% to 80% of its budget on excess horses held in private feedlots and long term holding facilities off of the federal lands they are mandated to manage.

In addition to a $12 million increase from the President's 2009 $64 million BLM budget proposal, separate funding totaling $42.5 million has been requested to purchase land for a wild horse preserve. The preserve would relocate wild horses to the Midwest or eastern portions of the United States in order to attain the appropriate population levels and remove the wild horses from the western rangelands where the wild horse have caused substantial environmental degradation .

While the intention of the BLM is to better manage the horse population is laudable, spending taxpayer's money to build horse preserves is not the solution. "The United Organizations of the Horse believes moving the horses to a different geographical area will not solve the problem, but will only spread the environmental degradation and increase an unnecessary burden on the taxpayer," says Sue Wallis, executive director of the United Organizations of the Horse, "reinstating humane horse processing in the United State is the only moral and ethical solution to management of the growing number of excess wild horses."

The BLM also intends to use aggressive fertility control measures to slow the increasing number of wild horses, but this will not reduce the current number of wild horses that is already too large. Unmanaged horse herds double in population every four years. The Wild Horse and Burro Management program has been facing decreasing adoptions of wild horses and higher costs associated with the feeding and housing of the horses.

Leaving too many horses on the land will only result in thousands of horses dying of starvation. Dr. Temple Grandin, professor of animal science at Colorado State University has noted that "Mother Nature is cruel." She has also been heard to say that "Death is not abuse. Abuse is dying of starvation and having your entrails torn out by coyotes because you are too weak to get up."

The current state of the U.S. economy is already unhealthy and to expect taxpayers and the government to pay for increased costs associated with an issue that has an easy solution is irresponsible. Wild horses have become a political pawn for the animal rights movement and this is not only doing an injustice to the horses, it is causing an increased burden on taxpayers and the United States government. These misguided management practices must be stopped and a practical solution that will actually decrease the number of wild horses and provide relief must be implemented.

"The last thing this country needs right now," says Wallis, "is a welfare entitlement program for animals that uses taxpayer dollars to line the pockets of so-called animal advocates while exacerbating and prolonging the suffering of horses."

----------------------------

About United Organizations of the Horse:
The United Organizations of the Horse, a mutual benefit corporation, is a gathering of like-minded individuals and organizations who support the incredibly complex and diverse world of horses. Members and supporters are committed to the well-being and humane treatment of all horses, and the viability of the equine industry in the United State of America.

For additional information, please contact Sue Wallis or visit www.UnitedOrgsoftheHorse.org.

This just goes to show you that the "social value" of animals has a lot more to do with how society chooses to deal with an invasive species than what actual environmental impact that species may have.

The FWC have ALWAYS been realistic and are our greatest allies here in Florida. Their for the most part a reasonable bunch of people and the Florida Herp Community has been working with them hand in hand for many years. THEY ARE NOT OUR REAL ENEMY BUT ALLIES. We have a say in all rule changes via public meetings and thus far our opinion is weighed and in many cases relied on for accurate info by the FWC. We are fortunate to have a state regulatory agency that is user friendly and realistic....I might add they are also tough and the chips fall where they may..
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

It has really seemed that way to me. That's what I was thinking about Florida Fish and Wildlife: they always seemed reasonable and always invited us to come and offer our opinions. I just wish the meetings weren't in the middle of the day on Wednesday in the middle of the week.
I promise I'd rather have been there than teaching, but my boss wouldn't have agreed!
Aaron
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www.voodoomagicboas.com

It's funny how the cat lovers can make a fuss about going after the cats, but if the snake people make a fuss, we get a kick in the face.

Here is a question.

If other kinds of animals that are feral are targeted and then the people cry, and then are no longer targeted, due to the decision makers changing their minds. If an animal is targeted and people complain but their animals are not taken off of the target list. Could that be a form of descrimination? And if it is a form of descrimination, is there any legal avenues to persue?

If you close your eyes to one but not another it would seem to me that it would be a form of descrimination.

Yes it is discriminatory. The proponents of these actions are taking full advantage of the well known human prejudice against these animals with their media campaign, playing fast and loose with the facts.

Here is an analogy -- cop stops you for speeding. You say, "I wasn't speeding. It was the other guy. I was just keeping up with the flow of traffic. People were passing me. What about them?"

Cop says, "I didn't catch them. I caught you." You have no defense. Court is going to take the cop's word, even if he was mistaken. He is an officer of the court. He is an authority figure.

The people making these unsupportable claims are "Authority Figures". The public is going to assume they know what they are talking about, regardless. Besides, not a huge percentage of the general public interested in campaigning for the truth [on this subject]. Don't like snakes in the first place. Right? Public apathy, or outright disdain.

An easy mark for the proponents of this agenda. Sets precedent. More banning to follow. And so on and so on...

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Mr. Rochford,
This is a statement that you made in another thread here in the Burm Forum on Kingsnake.

"I hope everyone understands the delay and knows we're not trying to hide anything to get the legislation passed. I don't even want the legislation to pass.

Mike"

Because, I feel you deserve some benefit of the doubt, I will not call you a liar, but I will say, I find your statement hard to believe.

I happen to know one of the individuals that you have spoke of here in the Burm Forum and you work to some degree with this person. (He has not spoken in this forum, so I will not say which person it is, but if he does speak, he will then open himself up to the firing squad as you have.) The person that I speak of is totally against the ownership of the big snakes and he is in on all of these studies. He is very influential in the community, and is well respected. Funny thing is, this person has owned a lot of different snakes throughout the years.

If your claim is true, that you don't want to see this legislation pass, then why is all of the media so negative and biased? Everything that I have seen or heard, whether written, said, sugested, implied, documented, accused, acuired, imagined, speculated, or what have you has always been against the snakes, ownership of the snakes, personal rights, reptile owners in general, and a complete disrespect to the reptile community as a whole. Why is that?

I will give you my opinion. You as well as the others in all of these studies have to answer to someone. You and those you answer to all have their own opinion, so all of your documentation is going to conform to your biased opinion. You and others like you want to deliberately put fear into the general public to further the cause of banning the big snakes. If this were not true you and your colleages would do something to change the public perseption that these big snakes are bad and they are going to invade the country and eat or kill everything in their path.

Do you Mr. Rochford, or any of your colleages, employers, or institutions recieve any money from any of the animals rights groups? I would be willing to bet that someone somewhere does.

If you are for the ownership of these snakes you have not shown that to be true. Why can't you and others like you speak publically about the truth and the reality of the situation. You and others like you know and have known that these snakes cannot live in cold climates, yet you constently allow bad press to scare and form negative opinions in the general public.

Hurricane Andrew released most of those big snakes and you and others like you know it. But you and others like you continue to portray it as being irresponsible snake owners. Not one person has been caught releasing a Burm into the Everglades, but it has been proven that Hurricane Andrew destroyed reptile businesses and all types of structures that housed Burmes and other wildlife, therefore releasing these animals into the wild.

Why can't you people start making press appearences telling people that they don't need to worry about a giant snake invasion? If you and others like you don't start telling the truth, there is only one answer as to why, it's because you don't want the truth to be known.

I very carefully said "I" don't want the legislation to pass but "we" are not hiding anything to try to get it to pass. OBVIOUSLY some of the python researchers want it to pass because they have testified at the congressional hearings. But NOBODY is hiding anything, even the people that want it to pass. And I was assured today that the data will be made available before this whole legal battle ends. I know most of you guys (or maybe all of you) don't trust me but if anyone does I hope that puts your mind at ease a little bit.

In regard to the media... I can't say that I've ever been asked about anything political in front of the cameras. From me they usually want to know what they eat, what their movements are, any interesting stories I have, and things like that. I have very little interaction with the media. In my 4 years here we've done 3 TV shows out of an insane number of requests for people to film with us. I think the worst thing you'll be able to find me say is that P. sebae are a little more aggressive than P. molurus. I kinda wish I hadn't said that but I can't really say it's untrue either. If someone with a camera had ever asked me what I think about the range maps I would tell them what I have stated here... I don't think they will go as far as the Rodda map but they will probably go farther than the Pyron map (and I'm open to the possibility of being wrong about that). People never ask me that though. And there are scientists on the record saying pythons won't make it as far as the Rodda map. Their names are Alex Pyron and Frank Burbrink (among others). The problem is that unless Gordon Rodda says "hey guys, I was wrong" it doesn't really matter what anyone else says. But when a production company is putting together a tv show and they see the Pyron map and the Rodda map which one do you think they are going to put on the program? Which one do you think sounds more interesting? It's not a decision for me to make. It's not a decision for my boss to make. Or Skip. It's up to the producer of the show.... and you know he's going to choose the Rodda map because it's more interesting to more people.

I am right here in public saying I don't want the ban to pass so I don't know what you want from me. I have no control over which tv shows I'm involved in or what those people want to know from me and I especially have no control over what they use/don't use from what I have told them. I don't want to make people afraid of snakes. I've spent my whole life trying to the opposite. I worked as a camp counselor in high school and college and I couldn't begin to tell you the number of kids I tried to influence in a positive way toward snakes. And my favorite snakes are rattlesnakes so I've always been trying to conserve them and teach people that they're not evil creatures that are out to kill you and it's always been an uphill battle because that group of snakes isn't exactly the most popular among non-herp people.

Our funding sources are public information that you can find online. I believe that is true for all the other python researchers too since they are government agencies. We've never accepted any money from animal rights groups. Personally, I hate those groups and think they are a joke (and they are giving us a bad name).

I've never said that Hurricane Andrew did not cause the pythons to escape. I've only said that it doesn't even matter whether it did or not because it's still not acceptable that the snakes got loose. The source is still the pet trade. We need to get past that argument and start being more careful with our animals. And you would seriously have to be an idiot to get caught releasing anything in the Everglades. That place is huge and very poorly monitored by law enforcement. Not that it matters. I have literally seen a ball python crawl out of a crack in the wall of a reptile dealership so let's please not deny that there is a problem. Let's try to fix it ourselves so they government doesn't try to do it for us.

Like I've said before, I don't need to be here posting on this forum. I'm honestly trying to help make things better. I understand why everyone is upset and I know when I was younger I had a HUGE problem with authority. I probably still do. When I moved to college and out from the control of my parents I FINALLY assembled a decent venomous collection (~20 snakes) just to have the animal control show up within a couple weeks and some IDIOT lady that knows nothing about snakes tell me that I can't keep them. Somebody that knows LESS than me is telling me what I can/can't do with MY animals. That pissed me off to no end and I still hold a grudge and have a problem with how stupid people in this country are. To add insult to injury, the lady was afraid of bats so she asked my roommate and I to help her any time she got a bat call. I was stupid enough to help and I still lost all my animals. I feel your pain. But I'm not a liar and I'm not out to destroy what you guys are clearly very passionate about. It's not me. But I do think we need to come up with some changes that will probably require some compromise. I think regulations at the state level are probably necessary. It's just the reality of the situation. There's no way to deny that MANY people in this country do care about the environment/invasive species/endangered species/etc. and it's not acceptable to keep allowing non-native species to become established. That's just the way it is and no amount of fighting is going to change that so we need to think of the best possible compromise.

Mike

Didn't mean to leave your whole copied/pasted post in the post I made above. Sorry.

Mike

M
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

Mike,

Thanks for the very cogent post. I agree a compromise will have to be reached. One possible route I have mentioned in the past is he one the Aviculturists came up with almost 20 years ago. It is The Wild Bird Conservation Act of 1992, and it is the reason that they have no worries about losing their hobby to draconian legislation.

Under the tenets of this Act, mass importation of all wild-caught avians ended. In return, Aviculturists were allowed to breed, sell, and transport birds across state lines to their content. In addition, qualified breeders are still allowed to import limited numbers for "new blood" for breeding programs.

The Avicultural hobby and industry has done very well under this law for almost two decades-perhaps something similar could help us now?
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

Mike, what would they do without you? You are the guy to get in here and you are the one who seems to represent where we are coming from, that is the hobby keepers out here who are going to be slammed by the proposed legislation. You know the feeling of having your personal responsibility taken away and legislated with an uncompromising firm hand. You are truly caught in the middle, but I think we all appreciate you being here for us, otherwise we would have no info at all from these guys.
Mike, it seems to me that if every python dies within the next month or so from the cold winter, the legislation will still be pushed even harder in some attempt to take advantage of the kill to drive the stake into this perceived “problem”. Do you see the shift from the possibility of pythons extending their range and more emphasis on future prevention by passing the legislation anyway? How much of the political wrangling behind the scenes filters down to you and the guys on the front line who are suppose to be just scientists gathering data?

Sorry. I've got 1 question. Is it true that Mr. Nelson is using this as a crutch to help with the Everglades cleanup/restoration since hardly anyone was paying attention to it? Now that you have all of these dangerous snakes lurking around every corner people ARE PAYING ATTENTION.