Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is a post I started in the cyclura forum a coupple months ago and we had some discussion about it but it is probobly more for this type of forum so what do you guys think?

I think if you want to lessen the number of cheep throw away reptiles the US should have a tariff on all reptiles imported into the country. It should start at $10 for any imported reptile so now all the cheep reptiles will cost more and be more cost effective to captive breed. A Tokay gecko that now sells for $15 will now cost $30 to $40 and will only be sold to someone who really wants Tokay. Next others will be assessed on the desire to limit imports to either protect breeders or to increase there price so they are no longer throw away pets. $20 for iguanas (think how many would be collected in so Florida if you could sell 100 babies for $25 ea) All snakes start at $25 ea that would increase the price of imports to closer to captive raised prices. Someone could actually make money raising normal ball pythons if they were getting $40 or $50 each wholesale and morphs would sell for at least $200 ea if normals were $139 on pet shops. All torts $50 ea now breeders will get a fair price for low end torts like red foots if wild caught were $125 wholesale to start. Monitors $50. Large type pythons and boas $100 very few would get imported at this price and captives would be worth more and they would not be as disposable.
The taxing of imports would not change the laws of importation you could still get new blood wild caught animals and you could still import high end animals without any trouble or special paperwork needed you would just have to pay a little more for imported animals and what is another $100 on a $3000 animal.
This would make more $ for the government and make more money for people who captive breed and not make it illegal to bring in animals. Sure collectors in other countries would suffer to some extent but not as much as they would if we closed up completely.

This is one idea that is able to be done and more effective and realistic than many alternatives I have heard.
What do you guys think?
Rob

I don't think this would satisfy enough of the opposition to work long term (I don't mean HSUS and PETA-nothing will ever satisfy them!)-it would still allow too many imports for the mass market. In addition, any new taxes/tariffs would be a non-starter in Washington with the free trade guy.

See my post below "Possible Compromise"-a solution modeled on the "Wild Bird Conservation Act of 1992" has worked for the bird hobby for two decades, and could work for us too....
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

Brad, that is an excellent idea..It would work and already has worked in a similar situation. I would support that compromise...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

The wild bird act only applies to parrots, just to make things clear - finches & softbills can and are, still imported by the bucket load.

The problem with the wild bird act is it was put in place by big bird breeders to increase the price and keep out cheeper imports and protect there market. It only covers parrots and gives almost no room for importing new blood. The variety of reptiles kept is 100 times that of birds and not all reptiles are ready to be captive bred in any numbers. The terrif could be adjusted to on each type of animal to keep the number of imports down but still not stop anyone from importing them. This would also be a boom the reptile breeding of the cheeper animals.

>>The problem with the wild bird act is it was put in place by big bird breeders to increase the price and keep out cheeper imports and protect there market. It only covers parrots and gives almost no room for importing new blood. The variety of reptiles kept is 100 times that of birds and not all reptiles are ready to be captive bred in any numbers. The terrif could be adjusted to on each type of animal to keep the number of imports down but still not stop anyone from importing them. This would also be a boom the reptile breeding of the cheeper animals.

Actually it was pretty much FORCED on the breeders-large and small-as a compromise to allow them to continue to have a hobby.

As I said above, Tariffs and taxes are, at the moment, pretty much a non-starter in Washington. Yes, they would encourage the breeding of cheaper reptiles to an extent-but a "Wild Reptiles Conservation Act of 2011" would not just encourage breeding, it would make it mandatory, if we wish to continue our hobby. It would also raise prices for all breeders, large or small, and all reptiles, cheap or expensive.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

If this happened within 10 years we would probobly have less that 10% of the variety of reptiles we have todaylook what happened to parsons chameleons, monkey tail skinks, standings day geckos once common reptiles in the industry now they are practicaly gone. There are to many varietys for us to work with all of them plus some are not that easy to breed yet. Most parrots are not that hard to breed and many live for 80 years and the demand for reptiles far outweighs the demand for birds.
I also believe you are wrong about the bird act being forced down there throats the importers were against it and it put many of them out of business but it was the best thing to happen for the breeders because cheep imports were no longer available. Also it was based on the fact that parrots are not a very sustainable resource and cutting down there tree to get at the babys was destructive to there habitat. Now many bird breeders are selling off there breeder birds due to low demand once you buy a parrot you have it for life and you only want one. I will do some more checking about who was pushing for the law I have many friends who have been breeding birds for decades and have 100's in there collections.
To say a terriff is a non starter is debateable,the goveronment loves new taxes and we are the ones asking for it so we are begging them to tax us to save our industry.
Rob

Rob-

I take your point, but you are wrong about the Standings day gecko, monkey tail skink, and even Parsons chameleon (though there are much fewer of these) Certainly there are more than enough of the first two in breeding situations right now to assure we won't lose them (Parson's are more problematic).

One of the big problems in herpetoculture right now is low prices for all but high-end animals, forcing breeders to get out of the business or to not breed less expensive/lower demand animals. A strict import regulation would solve that very quickly.

Perhaps I misremember about the Bird Act-I'm getting my info from my wife, who was breeding quite a few parrots at the time.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

Breeder of:
Green Tree Pythons
Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pastel, Pinstripe, FIRE, Piebald, Clown, Lavender Albino, Leucistic, and Spider Ball Pythons
Striped Colombian Boa Constrictors
Kenyan, Rufescens, and Conicus Sand Boas
Red Phase Western Hognose Snakes
Spider Western Hognose Snakes
Albino Western Hognose Snakes
Locality Trans-Pecos Mexican Hognose Snakes
Southern Hognose Snakes
Eastern Hognose Snakes
Tricolor Hognose Snakes
Hypo Checkered Garter Snakes
Eastern Blackneck Garter Snakes
Stillwater Hypo Bullsnakes
Patternless Bullsnakes
S. GA Eastern Kingsnakes
Locality Desert Kingsnakes
Albino Desert Kingsnakes
Hypo Desert Kingsnakes
Mexican Black Kingsnakes
Desert Phase, Striped Desert, Newport, and Coastal California Kingsnakes
Locality Mexican Milksnakes
Spotted Mexican Milksnakes
Tangerine Mexican Milksnakes
Locality Alterna
Abbott Okeetee Cornsnakes
Mexican Baird's Ratsnakes
Cape Housesnakes
Tangerine Albino African Fat -Tailed Geckos
Locality Spotted Turtles

Why??? Once you give in you are showing WEAKNESS!!!

Dealing with an isolated state issue by banning species in all other states?

COMPROMISE????

Tom..... is water boarding bad too?

This ENTIRE THING IS RIDICULOUS!!! Based on dreadful hype and lame politicians that spend half a minute on something and try to "bang it out"!!!

More laws that do nothing more than allow officials to bust your ass and drag you into court, search your person, car and house....

Just what we need....

Tommy..... my whittle fluff ball, are you going soft on ole SATAN?

>>Brad, that is an excellent idea..It would work and already has worked in a similar situation. I would support that compromise...
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>>Tom Crutchfield
>>www.tomcrutchfield.com
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

LMAO, Satan if you knew my REAL thoughts concerning these idiots trying again to take away more of my rights even SATAN would be shocked....LOL
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Good..... I was confused there..

I am like the NRA...

Give NOTHING!!!!!

SATAN
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"Satan™" is a registered trademark of NERD, Inc. Any copyright infringement is punishable by ETERNAL DAMNATION and some other terrible stuff.

The problem with that is the greed and ingenuity of people to get around these obstacles. If Tokays are $40.00 each properly documented, there will be people out there selling undocumented for the old $20.00 and people buying those instead. Or people charging the $40.00 and still undocumenting and pocketing the difference. With all the rules to properly bring reptiles into the country now, we still have people bringing in tortoises and everything sewed into their pants just to make, not some money, but just a little bit MORE money. If everybody was following the rules with imports, properly housing (and not letting things escape) and diligence in selling, showing responsibility, etc. most of the proposals and further legislation would be unnecessary any way. It’s always the bad apples in every thing that do spoil it for everybody. Unfortunately the reaction is often to legislate for everybody, good and bad. That has always been a short sighted solution to every problem in this country. More government intervention instead of raining down on those who deserve it and leaving the good guys alone.

Whatever happens, after equilibrium, there will be fewer snakes on the market and at higher prices. Fewer qualified buyers and more overhead in administrative costs.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer