Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I had my first litter of KSB's back in July of last year. As of today, the females from the litter are all over 150 grams and eating large F/T mice. I took them to a show today to have them sexed by a friend and everyone that saw them thought I was crazy when they heard that they were born at the end of July, 2009, because they were so large already. I weighed the two largest last week and they were 155 grams a piece. Even the males are pretty big, maybe 125 grams or so each. Is this normal or or these KSB's growing much faster than most others would? I saw a few 2008 babies at the show that were dwarfs compared to mine, so I was pleasantly surprised. Now that I look around, seems most 09's offered for sale are still eating pinkies or something small like that.

I keep them in small tubs in a rack set at maybe 85 degrees where the probe is, and feed once a week with F/T. None of them ever miss a meal.
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Mike C
MClark202@insightbb.com

Here are the babies taken last week. They were born July 25th, 2009.

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Mike C
MClark202@insightbb.com

My four remaining 2008 juveniles are on large fuzzies right now and i'm about to switch them over to hoppers in the very near future. I would be concerned about obesity in regards to the size of yours. I just have not heard of 7 month old Kenyans getting to the size you're talking about that fast, without major powerfeeding, if it even occurs then.

Chrissy

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1.0 Ball Python-Siegfried
1.0 BRB-Pedro
1.0 Blair's Phase GrayBanded Kingsnake-Elvis
0.1 Paradox Albino Sand Boa-Cleo
2.2 Dodoma's
0.1 pug mix

Wow...

Are you feeding them 2-3 times a week? I have a hold bad male from Aug. 09 and he is 40g. My largest male (~8 years old) is only 140g. If I were you I would cut back on the feeding. Over weight animals can have similar health problems as over weight people. Also, over weight animals tend to be less productive when it comes to breeding.

I would suggest feeding them 1 appropriate sized food item every 10-14 days.

-Chris
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC

I'm only feeding once a week. I feed all my snakes on my off days from work so I can stay on a routine. As you can see from the pics, they aren't overweight at all. The females are the thicker ones and the males are still fairly thin in my mind. I JUST changed over to large mice for the females mainly because I am at a point in my freezer where I don't have any hopper mice, and the males are still eating fuzzy mice though. Their metabolism is unbelievable and I am cleaning out poop almost weekly, and they shed all the time. They are extremely active and all thrive in every way imaginable.

I weighed the largest female last night, and she hasn't eaten in about 8 days and she was 169 grams. My breeder male that is 7 years old is only 189 grams! My Breeder female was only 200 grams for the majority of her life, actually small for her age until the last few years, where she has finally beefed up a little. She's now 450 grams(She looks gravid though, so I don't know). The babies were dropped and were already larger than any baby sand boas I had ever seen, but didn't think much about it.

I don't know, I guess we will see where these huge babies go with time.
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Mike C
MClark202@insightbb.com

I agree that they don't "look" over weight, but in a short fat snake species it is hard to tell. I don't know for certain, but I would guess that it isn't good to push them to grow that fast.

My largest female is ~650-700g @ 8 years old.

Just my 2-cents,
Chris
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC

I have a male that is about a year and a half pushing 150 grams and he's fat. He sounds like your guys, won't miss a meal and grew super fast. The problem is he doesn't have the muscle tone of my more 'normal' growing KSBs. Something very hard to explain in words...its not like your KSBs are going to have a double chin or a 'spare tire'...lol.

Heed the warning of this forum, Chris and guys like him have been sand boa enthusiasts and breeders for a very long time.

I'd back them off food a bit.

My little porker...

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Mark Huntley
Sand Boa Morphs

Kenyan Sand Boa's
4.1 Rufescens
1.2 Albinos
0.5 Dodoma
2.1 Flame
2.5.8 Normal (orange)
3.4.10 Anery
0.1 Snow
2.2 Hopeful Yellow Snow
0.1 Splash Albino
1.0 Splash Anery
1.0 Orange Stripe 100% Het Anery
1.0 High Orange Stripe
1.0 Yellow Stripe
0.4 High Orange Tiger
2.2 High Orange
2.3 Boston Terriers
0.2 Sooners
8.30 Rhode Island Reds
0.0.15 Tropical Fish
0.1 Moody Wives
1.1 On the fence in-laws
2.1 Rug Rats

http://sandboamorphs.blogspot.com/

I've seen Mike's Sand Boas (in fact, I sexed them for him and even bought a pair myself, lol).

Since when is feeding an appropriately sized prey item once a week "overfeeding" for KSBs? I know he is not powerfeeding his animals....I've been to his house & seen his collection. He keeps & breeds mostly Green Tree Pythons, so he is used to having animals with slow metabolisms and not pushing their food intake.

I think that the age of his breeder animals and genetics are playing the biggest part....not any sort of husbandry faults on Mike's part.

After ~6 months of age, I back off on feeding and feed 1 appropriate size mouse every ~14 days.

Maybe he does have genetics on his side...... instead of "dwarf" sand boas, maybe he can create giant sand boas..... I would like to see a 7-8' kenyan! hehe

Just my 2 cents...

Chris
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC

Also, I have successfully bred several males in the 50-70g range. So they don't need to be huge.

-Chris
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC

I don't think they have been power fed. I feed all my babies once a week and when they get a bit older I go to biweekly. Superior genetics, the perfect storm, who knows. Their growth pattern for their age is abnormal, but that doesn't mean they are being cared for improperly. I hope I didn't convey that type of message, I'm sure Chris wasn't saying that either.

I have a colony of mice that produce pinkies every thirty days and these guys grow twice the rate of any of my other colonies. I treat them identical to all the rest, except, I've been holding back the females and putting them in other colonies to pass on the superior genetics. No rhyme or reason to it, they just grow bigger and faster then the rest.
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Mark Huntley
Sand Boa Morphs

Kenyan Sand Boa's
4.1 Rufescens
1.2 Albinos
0.5 Dodoma
2.1 Flame
2.5.8 Normal (orange)
3.4.10 Anery
0.1 Snow
2.2 Hopeful Yellow Snow
0.1 Splash Albino
1.0 Splash Anery
1.0 Orange Stripe 100% Het Anery
1.0 High Orange Stripe
1.0 Yellow Stripe
0.4 High Orange Tiger
2.2 High Orange
2.3 Boston Terriers
0.2 Sooners
8.30 Rhode Island Reds
0.0.15 Tropical Fish
0.1 Moody Wives
1.1 On the fence in-laws
2.1 Rug Rats

http://sandboamorphs.blogspot.com/

They look pretty healthy to me. One thing I noticed is the head to body ratio. With sand boas at that age that have been power fed you will usually see little pin heads. I have a couple that started as power fed babies and they still have these tiny little heads. I also had a few clutches this year that had absolutly huge babies that started on fuzzies and they seemed to grow quickly before they shipped out.
I,like Chris also tend to start moving to a by-weekly feeding schedule with my hold backs after they hit the fuzzy/hooper range. Who am I kidding, I do a by weekly feeding with many newborns as well! lol. Pinkies can be hard to come by somtimes.
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Steve Perry
North Idaho.