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A SeaWorld Killer Whale trainer was killed by her killer whale today. She was said to be extremely experienced and one of the best.

I'm thinking that there should be an immediate ban of all Killer Whales. After all things like this should not happen, etc.

It is an unfortunate accident, however similar to large boids, venomous herps, crocks, etc. We, the keepers know and accept our risk. I would bet that the trainer of that whale would do it all again if she had the chance. On the other hand I am 42 years old and as long as I can remember there have been Killer Whales doing shows at SeaWorld and this is only the 2nd time that I can recall that someone was killed by one.

We know our risk, it is minimal and that chances of accidents in every day life is minimal. I just bet you there will be no move to ban Killer Whale shows at SeaWorld any time soon. Makes me wonder why...
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1.3 Albino Burmese Pythons
1.0 Green Burmese Python Het Albino
0.1 Granite Burmese Python Het Albino
1.0 Albino Boa Constrictor
0.1 Hypo Boa Constrictor
0.1 Het Albino Boa Constrictor
1.2 Purple Albino Retic
1.0 Tiger Retic Het Albino
0.1 Sunfire Retic Het Albino
A lot Ball Pythons
A lot of Corn Snakes
A lot of King & Milk Snakes
0.1 Savannah Monitor
Yes I have the space for these reptiles and yes I am a responsible keeper and breeder!

I was kind of thinking the same thing.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

It's even worse than that. This particular whale is known to have killed TWO people before this one!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (TBA)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

>>I just bet you there will be no move to ban Killer Whale shows at SeaWorld any time soon.

Ya wanna bet?

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0224/Death-of-Sea-World-trainer-Do-killer-whales-belong-in-theme-parks
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (TBA)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (TBA)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I was there in 1999 when he killed the other guy. They found the guy's pants next to the tank with the rest of his clothes. And a large baggie of pot in his pants. He probably wanted to "commune" with the whale. All the whale knew was that his "toy" broke.

There's a reason they aren't called "Cuddly Whales"...

It is a real shame. Their name is Killer Whale, I think that says it all. I can say this, the whale and dolphin shows at Sea World are really something to see. I don't live that far (less then 2 hours) so I get over there every now and then. They have some other amazing shows with sea lions and other creatures as well. I live even closer to Busch Gardens, and not long ago one of the lion trainers took her family back for a behind the scene tour. Well, on that particular day, she went in with two arms and left with one. The accidents are not very often, and there are risks associated with being around any and all animals, and that goes for snakes as well. I am not sure how to say this but, we know there is a risk, and we accept it, so it's on us if a mishap should occur. Does that make sence? Look at dog attacks, they are fairly common, yet a lot of households have a dog or more then one. What's next, the banning of automobiles? How many car accidents kill people every day? There are risks involved with every thing we do, some risks are higher then others. If you haven't been to Sea World to see the shows, I highly recommend seeing them.

>> I am not sure how to say this but, we know there is a risk, and we accept it, so it's on us if a mishap should occur. Does that make sence?

Yes! It makes great sense. I'm not sure what's going on in this country, we seem to have gone into bizarro world, acting as if there are (or should be) no risks in life. There are, and always will be, risks in doing anything. And there are, and always will be, costs of NOT doing something because that something carries some miniscule risk.

In the killer whale case, it's simple cause and effect. If you choose to work with a gigantic animal (that can easily kill you even if it's just playing) in an artificial setting, then as you put it, "it's on you." Obviously it's a tragedy, but tragedies happen. At least the trainer died doing what he/she loved and also provided education and entertainment for thousands of people.

I just woke back up (musicians hours lol.) I was reading one of the articles on the slantinel about it and took a look at the posts below it. Then I put up my own post blasting the whole bunch of them. If it were not for the theme parks orlando would be lucky if it was even the size of Ocala and that's being generous. These people here have no problem living off the economy that is largely created by the theme parks. One mishap and there ready to bring out the torches and pitchforks against the whale AND Sea World. I think they should all move to Arcadia. I would give them about a week before their house burnt down.

To be fair, it's pretty clear SeaWorld didn't take anything like appropriate precaution in handling an animal that's known to be dangerous.
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Posted by: brd at Wed Feb 24 22:44:19 2010 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by brd ]

It is a real shame. Their name is Killer Whale, I think that says it all. I can say this, the whale and dolphin shows at Sea World are really something to see. I don't live that far (less then 2 hours) so I get over there every now and then. They have some other amazing shows with sea lions and other creatures as well. I live even closer to Busch Gardens, and not long ago one of the lion trainers took her family back for a behind the scene tour. Well, on that particular day, she went in with two arms and left with one. The accidents are not very often, and there are risks associated with being around any and all animals, and that goes for snakes as well. I am not sure how to say this but, we know there is a risk, and we accept it, so it's on us if a mishap should occur. Does that make sence? Look at dog attacks, they are fairly common, yet a lot of households have a dog or more then one. What's next, the banning of automobiles? How many car accidents kill people every day? There are risks involved with every thing we do, some risks are higher then others. If you haven't been to Sea World to see the shows, I highly recommend seeing them.
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I also love Sea World the shows are great but I particularly love the displays like reef displays giant groupers,etc.
Lots of them and great even the little displays with inverts,etc I love.
I go once a yr as its a days drive for me since further south but the displays are just fantastic.

Here is a link. This was the third time this whale killed someone. I think it is time to destroy or set free this whale.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_re_us/us_seaworld_death

That particular one should be called "SERIAL KILLER WHALE"....
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

LOL

I knew this woman she was a wonderful person and an amazimg trainer who truly loved her animals and her job. I don't find anything funny or amusing about about jokes about changing killer whales to serial killer whales this is not a 'LOL' matter.
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"We don't inherate the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children"

I am sorry you were offended, I certainly wasn't trying to offend anyone. I know Tom, and I know he wasn't trying to offend anyone either. Sometimes a little humor can ease the pain of a given situation. If you read my other posts in this thread you will see some of the things I have said. I believe this is a very serious situation. To all of you that were offended, I would like to say, I am sorry you were offended.

My 15yo dd takes Marine Biology and her instructor holds lab once a month at Sea World Orlando. The instructor was a former educator at SW and takes the students around to meet staff, trainers, and do a lot of behind the scenes stuff. It is a very responsible organization and the trainers are truly amazing people...as passionate as we are. How many of us have taken in rescue animals with bad reps and accepted the risk? I see the SW organization coming under fire unnecessarily just as herpers are.

Her family has my sympathies, she was a remarkable person living her dream.

Or, "KILLA" whale....the rap whale.

Both of those ideas are ridiculous. Anyone who works with large dangerous animals knows the risks of what they are getting into (except maybe dog owners lol.) if they don't they have no business doing it. The killer whale is being a Killer whale there is no reason to kill it for being what it is.
Turning a killer whale loose is the equivilent of killing it due to the nature of wild killers whales in relation to their social structure.
Finally the woman who was killed died doing what she loved doing and there is really no better way to go. I was a groundskeeper at a very wealthy(ie best healthcare) retirement community for a few years. Having seen what happens to people that slowly fade away is absolutely horrible. Since then it has been my hope that when I start to slow down from age that something kills and eats me. It's much better than the alternative IMO.

>> Turning a killer whale loose is the equivilent of killing it due to the nature of wild killers whales in relation to their social structure.

I agree that this is a tough one....OTOH, the captive whale Keiko was released semi-successfully some years ago.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I think "Keiko" found some relatives from her old pod to join with.

Keiko actually passed away shortly after his semi-successful release.

Chrissy
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1.0 Ball Python-Siegfried
1.0 BRB-Pedro
1.0 Blair's Phase GrayBanded Kingsnake-Elvis
0.1 Paradox Albino Sand Boa-Cleo
2.2 Dodoma's
0.1 pug mix

>>Keiko actually passed away shortly after his semi-successful release.

He actually died several *years* after his move. He was moved to Klettsvik Bay in September of 98, and he died in December of 2003.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

>>I think "Keiko" found some relatives from her old pod to join with.

Not exactly. The plan was for him to be integrated with a pod, and he did interact with wild orcas, but he never joined up with them. While he did learn to feed himself to some extent, he was supported with supplemental feedings most of the time. He spent one period of about 2 months with no support at all, during which he swam roughly 1000 miles on his own. Then he was taken back into semi-captivity in another bay, where he later died of pneumonia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keiko_(orca)
http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/what_are_the_issues/the_keiko_project_returning_keiko_to_the_wild/keikos_story_the_timeline.html
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

The scene in the movie where "willy" jumps the jetty was a digitally done shot. The real whale never did that.

>>The scene in the movie where "willy" jumps the jetty was a digitally done shot. The real whale never did that.

So...........?
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Given the history of this animal, it should one way or another be removed from human contact. This animal has proven too many times to be extremely dangerous. There are risks, but with this one the risk is to high. This animal has killed on three seperate occasions. This animal will likely kill again. I would even bet on it.

>>Given the history of this animal, it should one way or another be removed from human contact.

I pretty much agree with this statement, but this doesn't mean that kill or release are the only options. Zoos keep lions and tigers and hippos for years without incident, for instance. IMHO the problem here was that they were treating this orca as though he was a "normal" captive orca -- which he is obviously not. Instead, they need to treat him like a lion or tiger -- a known danger. They were not taking sufficient precautions given his past history. You can bet they'll be taking more precautions now!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Maybe I made a mistake about killing or releasing it, but it should not come in contact with people. It will kill again.

There is a difference between the risk associated with working with a species and being put in harms way. This animal has proven deadly three times. Maybe killing or releasing it isn't the answer, but removing it from human contact is. This animal will kill again.

Also if a dog kills a human, that dog is destroyed. In some cases dogs are destroyed on their first attack even if they didn't kill.

I am all for the ownership of whatever someone wants to own as long as they can care for it properly. When animals are proven to be deadly they should be dealt with accordingly. Same is true with people, and we do treat them accordinly, it's called prison, and the death penalty. Humans are destroyed for killing or seperated from society. There are bad people and there are bad animals. This doesn't mean all people or all animals are bad, but they exist and should be dealt with accordingly.

the "destroy it" mentality on captive wild animals because has always puzzled me. I have heard this crap quite often. Several times after a signifigant bites from monitors I have heard this very "logic" in the past from co-workers. "Well if that thing bit ME I wud hav kild it." of course most of them would have trouble with houseplants much less be able to keep animals and couldn't possibly conceive the dedication required to keep something like a large monitor or boid. ?Nor could they understand the rewards of working with such animals that makes it worth the risk.
The turn em loose idea is a peta.hsus,alf type concept that is ridiculous for several reasons.
From sea world perspective they should probably put this whale back in their breeding program and take it out of performance.....although I do remember the incident with the nut job who jumped the fence to swim with it and I did think at the time that watching a killer whale play volleyball with that kook might have been a bit entertaining.lol.

>>
>> From sea world perspective they should probably put this whale back in their breeding program and take it out of performance.....

I think I read somewhere that this whale has already been out of public performance for a good while. I'm not absolutely positive about that, but I think it's true.

The death didn't occur during a performance, but rather while the trainer was talking to the public at pool side.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Ahhh.

I just hear a story on CNN about this whale.

Turns out he IS used in performances, but only to splash water on the spectators. Trainers aren't supposed to go in the water with him.

Also, they said he is already the primary breeding male for ALL the Seaworld parks, so he's definitely in the breeding program.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Yes, and I heard he pulled her in from poolside. There is that water level shallow step, if I'm not mistaken.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

>>Yes, and I heard he pulled her in from poolside. There is that water level shallow step, if I'm not mistaken.
>>jsc

Yup. I love the way that the SeaWorld folks are saying she fell in, while the actual witnesses say he pulled her in.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

The whale has fathered 13 children and ten of them are still performing. They said he's worth millions to the park so there's no chance of them giving him up or letting him go. Either way it is a case of human error as any time you work with animals. Even if he did pull her in, should not have over stepped the animals bounds. While it is some what different it is like working with reptiles. If you get bit it's not the animals fault.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and and say, a Cash Cow like that can probably kill again and still be untouchable.

When cash is king...cha-ching...morals & ethics ain't no thing!
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I have always adhered to strict protocal to PREVENT incidents from occuring because of the business risk in terms of financial liability as well as to avoid the bad PR that always happens. There was a news special on local TV here discussing the attack that of course mentioned Burmese Pythons in the same story about the deady Orca. Whenever anyone is injured by any type of exotic wild animal reptiles seem to get thrown in the publicity quagmire that follows unfortunately...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I have worked with potentially deadly creatures for almost 40 years now including Crocodilians. To date I've only had 2 venomous bites [both through bags] and one employee was bitten by a Stiletto Snake [Atractaspis bibroni] which cost him his right index finger. The bite was his fault as well as one of mine was my fault. People that work with dangerous animals know the risk going in. If I were and when I was seriously injured by these creatures I in no way blamed the snakes. They are only doing what their geneticaly programmed to do. The trainer died while performing the job she loved with creatures she loved. We begin to die when we are born and I don't see being killed by an animal you have always worked with and loved a particularly bad way to go. Having said that I'm not going to run out and place the big King Cobra around my neck as I love life in general but if the worst ever happens I would have NO regrets at the life I've chosen to live...My instructions to loved ones now and has always been to see that NO harm is done to the animal...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I fully agree with Tom. I do find it kind of sad and disappointing that the anchormen and women seem to act like people who work with wild animals don't acknowledge the risk. Yet if you ask the reporter who goes to war torn counties and risks being shot or blown up you would get a similar reason (somewhat). I actually think Jack Hanna did a decent job of summing up why we(those who work with wild animals) do what we do.

I think they may not be trying to kill the people. They certainly don't try to eat it. Maybe some just are a little rougher with their "play item" than others. A human may not think it's play, but to an animal the size of a mini-sub, it may certainly seem like the play item is fragile.

This is her.

Have Killer whales killed more people then large constrictors while in captivity?

>>Have Killer whales killed more people then large constrictors while in captivity?

I think this is all about risk-exposure.

I doubt that killer whales have killed more people, but far MORE people come in close contact with large constrictors so the chance seems higher. I'd be willing to bet that the risk is lower with large constrictors.

Odds of dying from a large constrictor = .44 over 30 years
Odds of dying from this particular killer whale = .16 in 19 years

But there are only what, a couple dozen killer whales in the US? And only a few hundred people are actually close enough to be killed by them. Those numbers vs the hundreds of thousands of large constrictors and the hundreds of thousands or possibly millions of people who are close enough to large constrictors to be killed by them. And my guess would be that most, if not all of the deaths due to constrictors were due to mishandling/inappropriate caging.

Clearly, the larger risk is working with killer whales.

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com
Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

I think we should all stop usuing the term "Killer Whale" they are not whales they are dolphins and the term killer whale was from "Killer of whales" because some pods kill and eat whales or at least parts of whales. The term is promoted by the people who make money from them because the public responds to sensationalism, we should call them what they are Orcas.

The same people who want to stop keeping orcas today are the same people who wanted it stoped last week and the same people who want to stop all "animal incarceration" they just cant wait for someone to die from a snake or a marine mammal or a dog and give themselves a platform to strike. Persomaly I am compleetly fine with my risk of death from a big snake, shark, dog, ecsaped big cat, marine mammal, chimp, car, airplane, jet ski, motorcycle, terrorist because in reality all these are so rare to bother waiting time on. Lets cure cancer or some real things that matter and stop trying to legislate personal safty or trading freedon for safty because to safe life becomes the more scared people become.
Rob

Well "Killer Whale" fits this one pretty neatly. Not an animal I'd get near. Cages and multiple barriers please
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We wouldn't have 6 and a half billion people if you had to be beautiful to get laid.
6.6 African House snakes
3.2 reticulated pythons
.1 corn snake
4.2 Florida Kings
1.2 speckled kings
1.2 ball pythons
0.0.1 Argentine boa

Actually, they ARE whales. Toothed whales.

Toothed whales is a common term for all cetations with teeth. If you are going to call orcas toothed whales then there is no such thing is a dolphin or porpoise because they are toothed whales also. Most people use the term toothed whale for the sperm whale because it is not a dolphin or a baleen whale.
Rob

The reason Killer whales aren't being protested against is that people can not buy them as pets and they can not escape but reptiles and other animals can be bought for a private collection and no animal should be banned from anybody as long as they know the risks and the proper way to take care of them but like dangerous animals like tigers, bears, venomous reptiles, ect. well I think they should be banned cause the risk of something happening is much greatter and if they attack than your screwed and only pros should own them and be licensed to own them.

Nolan

"...like dangerous animals like tigers, bears, venomous reptiles, ect. well I think they should be banned cause the risk of something happening is much greatter and if they attack than your screwed..."

I'm not saying the owner shouldn't be responsible, or that he shouldn't house and care for the animal properly..just that, that's what they have LIABILITY insurance for!

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Killer Whale is possibly the worst common name ever given an animal. Outside animal parks, they have a pretty stellar record as far as their interactions with humans go.

Also....the name implies some sort of malice or intent. All whales are predators. Orcas don't kill any more than any other whale.

Just some thoughts to consider.

Doug T

>>All whales are predators.

Does plankton really count as prey?
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

I thought they ate Crabby Patties with Spongebob and Squidward.

Baleen whales eat krill, not plankton, I believe.

>>Baleen whales eat krill, not plankton, I believe.

Krill is a component of plankton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krill
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Part of my point of calling them orcas is because they are not whales they are the largest of the dolphins, they are called killer whales because sailors saw them killing whales.
Rob

The killer whale (Orcinus orca), commonly referred to as the orca and, less commonly, blackfish, is the largest species of the dolphin family. They are found in all of the world's oceans, from the frigid Arctic and Antarctic regions to tropical seas. Killer whales as a species have a diverse diet, although populations often specialize in particular types of prey. Some feed exclusively on fish, particularly salmon, while other populations hunt marine mammals such as sea lions, seals, walruses and even large whales. Killer whales are regarded as an apex predator as they have no natural predators.

link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whale
Link

Did anyone else see the Discovery channel show on Orcas. Ones down in australia were hunting various species of rays and ones off California will hunt White sharks. One actually brought a White Shark along side a boat of researchers as if to say "look what I got". Pretty smart creatures.

This unfortunate incident has brought the animal rights people out in force. Push-back by the professional animal trainers has been good, in my opinion.

I'm going to bet 90% of the country sympathizes with the professional animal trainers' position.

With the animal rights agenda at the fore, I'd be making the case that these are the very people behind the screen in our fight.

The public may then be more understanding to our cause.

Remember...connect the dots.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

People are not releasing killer wales into Lake Tahoe when they get to big for there swimming pools.
Foot Hill Herps