Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey everyone,

I have lots of experience with other types of pythons. I've always wanted to get into bloods, so I bought a baby Malaysian Blood at my favorite show about a month ago. I didn't ask the breeder many questions about the prior feeding, and so I really don't know how or if it was feeding before I bought it. I felt comfortable making the purchase because I examined the snake closely and held it a bit and it seemed very healthy and active.

My problem is that this snake seems to be a very reluctant feeder. I offered two smallish rat pinks soon after I got her home. One of those disappeared in the night and I presume she ate it. But she has not eaten anything since then (about 5 weeks).

As far as set up goes I have her in an appropriately sized sterlite tub with a fairly large water bowl and a small empty cardboard box for a hide. I have undertank heat only and on the end with the hide trying to get a good temperature gradient. I think the humidity and temps are reasonable. But, I'm wondering if the temps are just slightly too low and maybe that's affecting her feeding.

This baby is driving me crazy because she is generally refusing food. I've tried rat pinks, rat fuzzies and mouse pinks (all FT). I was hoping she would eat the rat fuzzies because they seem the most appropriate size. I tried gutting and braining the rat fuzzies and that did not seem to interest her. I've tried a little bit of "tease feeding" and at one point she kind of opened her mouth like she was agitated, but never struck.

I haven't tried any adult mice, and I was thinking about trying a small adult mouse.

I was also thinking to adjust the heat to get the warm end a little higher.

I haven't tried live yet because I live in the middle of nowhere and there's nothing I cab buy other than small mice at a pet store. Should I actually try that?

Should I consider force feeding some rat pinks or rat fuzzies?

Or should I be patient and just wait it out. So far, I would say she's a little on the thin side, but not terribly this and not losing weight. Just not eating!

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Hey I just went back farther and read some of the older posts.

It seems this is very common issue for baby bloods?

From what I read there I think I haven't been patient enough. And, I've not tried feeding in the dark.

Tonight I am going to sit there and wiggle and dance a rat fuzzy with the lights down low, and wiggle it and wiggle it for a good five minutes.

Wish me luck!

The best advice I got from kara years ago.

Warm water, warm the f/t food up to 104 degrees and then offer doing the dance of the zombies for as long as it takes.

For some reason this has made the difference.
-----
Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
Follow Kingsnake on Twitter!

I would personally never force feed a young blood, or any blood for that matter. The risk of serious damage is too great, and the stress involved can easily put a young blood off feed permanently.

The heat idea of Kara’s that Cindy is referring to is a good one and works very well in most cases. Bloods rely much more on heat than sight when detecting prey. This strong reliance blood pythons have on temperature recognition of prey is why some reluctant feeders in captivity will not take ambient temp prey, but can many times be induced to feed by heating the prey item to slightly over 100 F which will many times elicit a strike. I have seen a fair number of bloods over the years that will refuse to eat a rat at room temperature, but then immediately strike a crock water bowl that is being placed in the cage that is still warm from just being cleaned.

If all else fails, the best method I have ever used for reluctant newborn bloods is to place them in a 2 to 3 inch thick layer of moist long fiber sphagnum moss and introduce live juvenile mice at night. You can do this under red lighting to see what is happening. Let them settle in a few days before attempting feeding. When they acclimate, they will bury themselves in the sphagnum with just their head sticking out at night. Any mouse that comes near is usually immediately constricted. Keep disturbances low and temps in the mid 80’s with this setup. This is how young bloods feed in their natural environment and it will work in virtually every case. After they feed a few times you can transfer them to newspaper substrate and a hide with little problems. Good luck.

Kelly

Cindy and Kelly are right on. Remember, keep the light low and don't tease feed. Here is what I posted in the past to help remember the tricks:

Feeding Problem Feeders

Here is what works for me for the most difficult feeders:

1) Assuming you have been feeding live mice...start with feeding a frozen thawed mouse thawed in very warm water(not scalding hot!). The body temps should be 100-105F and thoroughly thawed.

2) Timing is everything! Feed in a low light room at night with the rodent still damp (just tap it dry a bit).

3) The snake should be in an ambush position like under substrate with its snout out or in its hide box with the head facing out. Using feeding tongs, grabbing the hindquarters or tail, introduce the rodent towards the head of the snake. He/she should see it coming, but not in a threatening manner. What ever you do, do not touch the snake with the rodent or tease the snake by slapping it with the rodent. This will create a completely different response.

4) Slightly jiggle the rodent to give it a slight living movement. If the snake is "buying it" you should see rapid tongue flicks or half-drawn held out tongue movement. This is a good sign. Keep up the facade until he strikes it or losses interest and pulls back. If he pulls back place, leave him be for a few days or a week and repeat.

Some other points to keep in mind:
- don't try feeding a newly acquired snake immediately. Let them settle for at least seven days to relax.
- never slap the snake with the rodent because they will get defensive and make your task more difficult.
- try larger prey...really, sometimes they prefer an adult mouse when you think they should be eating a fuzzy.
- color sometimes matters. try black versus white rodents.
- never force feed.
-----
================================
www.richcrowleyreptiles.com
Support your local herp society
www.chicagoherp.org

Thanks everyone. That is all good advice. I think I need to keep trying.

My set up and temps are just about right. But maybe the substrate could be more ideal. So far I've had her on papertowels. I'll get some sphagnum and try that.

Perhaps I was also too diligent with the tease feeding. I didn't exactly "slap" her with the mouse, but I did touch it to her face gently. That didn't go anywhere. She just keeps trying to get away from it. I did make the mouse and fuzzy rats dance around a lot, but I also did touch her face some with it.

I think I'll try again with the moist sphagnum as substrate and if she won't eat FT then maybe I'll try some small live mice.

Uuuuggggghhhhhh. She's driving me nuts!

OK. I obsessed over this girl all night last night as I set up her new enclosure and monitored her temps. I moved her to a smaller Sterlite tub with about 40-50 square inches, with a much smaller water bowel. I filled the entire tub with a few inches layer of moist sphagnum and put most of the tub over a new, larger heat pad. I think the temps were definitely significantly higher than her previous set-up and maybe an improvement. Before it was hovering back and forth between 78 to 80. Now its more like 85 on the warm end and 78 on the cool end. I guess she should feel more secure in such a smaller space. I'm a little concerned that the humidity may be too high, but I think this will have to be the way, at least until I get her feeding regularly! I'll be keeping my eyes on this. I guess I will try some frozen prey again soon, after a few days, and then if she doesn't eat I'll try a few small live mice.

I'll post some more if this doesn't do the trick!

Thanks everyone.

Don't be too concerned about the high humidity with young bloods in this setup. Remember what there natural environment is like, with humidity averaging in the 70 and 80% range consistently. High humidity in captivity with true tropical pythons is usually only a big problem when cage interiors are not clean of waste material. This is what causes the overgrowth of bacteria and fungi. I use maternal incubation with several tropical python species and these females incubate in moist spagnum lined nest boxes with an ambient humidity that never drops below 90% for 2 months. I have never had a health issue with any of them in the 30 years I have been doing this. Just makes sure you keep the cages clean and change out the spagnum frequently while using this setup. Hopefully it's only for the short term.

Kelly

Thanks everyone for so much advice. I feel good to have some advice from seasoned experts. This is my first blood and she's been trying my nerves.

I do believe I have her in a much improved set up now, based on all your advice. I'm letting her settle in and keeping my eyes on her before I try feeding. I'll probably try in the next few days sometime. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Thanks a million!

John (AKA Hayseed)

Hey,
If all else fails you can try dipping the head of the mouse unsalted chicken broth. Also, chick down works too. Just the downy feathers tacked on to the wet and warmed mouse. Of course talking frozen thawed here. Good luck!
-----
Have you hugged your Blood today?