Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is a link to a recent New York Times article...

http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/05/killing-pythons-and-regulating-them/

My comment on the blog #147.
jsc
-----
"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

LOL. You can't be serious about this:

"Nor, has it been proven the Burmese Python in South Florida is damaging and detrimental to the environment. One or two anecdotal incidences of predation doesn't amount to proof."

So there are thousands of pythons out there and none of them are eating?

And from Andrew Wyatt's part of the NY Times article:

"The word is that all of the pythons with radio markers being studied by the National Park Service in the Everglades died as well."

Seriously!?!?!?! It is ridiculous that he can make that statement considering nobody has commented on it publicly EXCEPT for me and my boss who have both said that they did not ALL die. Doesn't he read this forum? I thought I've seen him post here. He should know better. And, if he doesn't, he shouldn't be making that statement. So one immediately has to question his credibility when he goes on to say:

"It is also said that all of the pythons in the outdoor experiment at the Savannah River Ecological Lab in Aiken, S.C., also died."

I don't know anything about what is going on up there and I wouldn't be surprised if they all died but the point is that he shouldn't be making that comment in the NEW YORK TIMES.

Anyway, I'm going to go work on identifying the prey remains of these supposedly anorexic snakes now.

Mike

>>LOL. You can't be serious about this:
>>
>>"Nor, has it been proven the Burmese Python in South Florida is damaging and detrimental to the environment. One or two anecdotal incidences of predation doesn't amount to proof."
>>
>>So there are thousands of pythons out there and none of them are eating?
>>

He didn't say they weren't eating. What are you saying? Are you saying that any/every "introduced" species, by definition, is harmful/injurious simply because it eats????

Technically, yes. However, in a practical sense I'd say the definition needs to be refined. Do I think Burmese pythons are having an impact? Yes. They eat a wide variety of vertebrates in a national park where people are not even allowed to touch wildlife. Do I think they are the #1 worst invasive species... no way. Look at what Old World Climbing Fern does in Loxahatchee NWR... that stuff is horrible. It chokes entire tree islands and leaves them dead. Burms are not the worst at all but they are undoubtedly negatively impacting wildlife in ENP. When's the last time anyone here saw a muskrat or marsh rabbit in ENP?

Mike

Mike, I read the Mazzotti statements and I appreciate that he didn't over state the problem this time. Thanks.

With regards to USARK and Andrew, maybe you all should meet and talk about the research that you guys are doing. If you guys have information on your research that can help correct these statements then he needs to get that. I think once all the current hype is over and the media and politicians go away you and Andrew are going to be stuck with this mess long term.

I agree that burms do have a negative impact on the ENP, but with that said how many citizens are traveling to the park to see the muskrats and marsh rabbits in comparison to the now highly sensationalized burmese python?

The Cumberland Island National Seashore promotes the idea of visiting their park in order to see feral horses.

"Numerous species call Cumberland Island home. From threatened and endangered manatees and sea turtles to over 300 species of birds, the sights are endless on Cumberland Island. Often on a single trip, visitors may see wild turkeys, armadillos, feral horses, vultures, dolphins, and lizards all in the same day."

http://www.nps.gov/cuis/planyourvisit/outdooractivities.htm

Granted, the python is a predator so a direct comparison on the environmental impact won't work, but understanding the social value of these animals is also important.

Have you been able to correlate a direct economic impact to agriculture or any other business sector? And I ask this to establish impact in easily understood terms (i.e. number of endangered species killed, lost revenue, etc.) because sooner or later pythons in the park will be big business, look how many TV shows have already started cashing in.

Actually in the PBS documentary the idea of them becoming a "tourist attraction" was well suggested and in fact are rapidly becoming one....
-----
Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

So there are thousands of pythons out there and none of them are eating?

Sure the pythons are eating, and by all indications they are eating in the same manor and feeding on the same types (not species) of prey and in the same amounts as they do in their native ranges. From what has been shown there is absolutely no indication that any sort of hyper predation is taking place.

The population densities are also typical and what you would expect to find if you went hunting for them within their original range under similar conditions. Again nothing indicating that any sort of excess, over population is taking place. There is no indication that they are reproducing at an abnormal rate.

The location might be new but the type of eco system being occupied is a familiar one, typical of where you would find these snakes anywhere else. The most likely scenario is that the snakes will fit in to this new location in the same manor as they do elsewhere. The everglades is not a unique habitat type. Similar animals play similar roles under similar conditions, looking at these examples are in my estimation a much better indicator of what the pythons will do then anything else being pondered.

Ultimately if they continue to fit in( most likely), become a natural part of this new location as they are currently doing, this will not be damaging and detrimental to the environment. An environment that is way past the point of being considered "natural." In time if the planet still exist no one will question the pythons presence.

You have said that I was the most bias person while you were the least bias, well...you might want to reevaluate your position. I look at the snakes for what they are and what they do, how do these animals fit in, my perspective is objective and not guided by some prescribed religious like philosophy. The bi product of a standardized way of thinking that excludes certain realties. I look at these types of issues hard and objectively, I didn't just jump on the Burmese or invasive bandwagon when it became hip.

Usually, when a person resorts to personal attacks it means they have already lost the argument.

Thats an interesting comment. Considering that your buddy's have done nothing but attack me on a personal level, and from a position of presenting things that I never said or implied and other unfounded opinions of my personal views, mostly centered on their dislike for my .......political opinions and poignant assessments, while seldom if ever contesting anything I said about the animals. Hum.......................

ERNIE EISON
WESTWOOD ACRES REPTILE FARM INC.

Well said Ernie and I couldn't agree more. A good axample is the armadillo...a introduced species to Florida. No one gives it any thought as "invasive".

Dan

Archie Carr (University of Florida) wrote at least one published article on the Armadillo in Florida. He didn't much care for the Armadillo, if I remember correctly. I think it was back in the 1980's.
jsc
-----
"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Hi Mike.

Does seem as if a whole lot more thought went into my statement than went into your comment/rebuff, that's for sure.

Your lack of an impartial and objective view on the matter is obvious.

Your credibility is somewhat shot, I'd say. Your prejudice is exposed.

That's not Python shoe leather, you're chewing on is it?

jsc
-----
"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer