Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok. I know it's related to calcium def. or MBD. But here's the interesting question. I got this adult tegu as a rescue two years ago from a pet store. I do not know the history if this tegu before I obtained it. She has had UVB and a good diet of rodents and fruits and veggies as often as she'll eat them (not too often she's picky). She's never had any shaking or tremoring signs the entire time I have had her. She started about a week ago she'll crawl under her UVB and basking light and start wriggling her legs and toes like small muscle spasms. I'm giving her everything she needs aside from suplimenting her food. I am going to build her an enclosure outside this spring and let her spend the summer outside in natural sunlight and hope that may help. But at this time anyone know why I have had her for two years without a sign of problems and it start now? And anyone know if this should stop or how serious the issue is at the point she's starting to tremble?

Well, it's nearly impossible to tell from an Internet post what has happened and how severe it is. Anyone posting can just offer an opinion. A vet can draw blood and run a blood panel to check calcium levels and/or take x-rays to see if bone loss is occurring.

OK, so you can look at the diet. The ideal calcium to phosphorous ratio is 1.5 or 2:1. Ground beef has 1:15 (totally backwards), mealworms are 1:25, bananas are 1:3, and whole prey is right on target. Any food that is below the ideal range needs to be supplemented with calcium that does not contain phosphorous or phosphates. Some contain dicalcium phosphate...not good.

Next is the UV source. A good UV source is a mercury vapor bulb or a long fluorescent tube in a 10.0 strength. A MVB should bed at least 12" or more away from the basking spot, depending on the manufacturer's recommendations. On the other hand, a fluorescent UV needs to be within 6-10" of the lizard and there needs to be no obstructions such as screens or covers. Fluorescents also need to be replaced every 6 months.

Temperature is the final part of the equation. If the temperature is too low, then the lizard's overall metabolism is low. Without a proper basking temp, he cannot go through the ViT D and calcium processes regardless of other things that may be right.

Tremors can be from low plasma calcium, some owners report Colombians exposed to cold experience tremors, and neurological problems such as chemical exposure can cause tremors. A vet exam can help determine the cause of shaking.

If it is a MBD type of issue, a vet can prescribe injections or oral calcium glubionate that is absorbed more readily than powder. A mercury vapor bulb or natural sunlight can help provide quality UVB.

Good luck to you and your tegu! Keep us posted...

I agree with laurafl. I would take the tegu to reptile vet. wise man told me when in doubt take to herp vet. its impossible to know what care the tegu received at the pet shop Good luck

I agree and have to start off saying I feel that's sound advice to take it to a vet. Although I already plan to and know a lot of people in the reptile community in the southeast including several vets. I however feel it's easy advice to give to take an animal to a vet. I do know some people do need to be told. I was posting to ask the question to a broad spectrum of tegu keepers and see what everyone who has dealt with and experienced this had to say. My actual questions haven't been answered. Thank you both for your replies

It's easy advice because it works:

Let's say your tegu got into carpet cleaning solution and is having neurological issues. Someone on the net says it's calcium related and the underlying chemical exposure isn't treated. If the calcium plasma tests are low, then treatment is one way, if they are normal, treatment goes another.

Very little info was given in your original post, so I covered anything that could have happened in two years. It could have been a slowly building issue. What is the diet? What bulbs are you using, when were they replaced last, and how are they positioned? What are the temps? Are they warm enough to facilitate the Vit D synthesis and calcium utilization process? What kind of supplements are you using? Have you switched recently? Do they contain phosphorous with the calcium?

Reread my original response and see if any of those address your husbandry. Then you can try to figure out what happened.

I'm really not trying to sound harsh or come-back-ish...I'm trying to help you solve your issue. It's difficult at time to give Internet advice, especially without any info about husbandry.

Try this:

Skip the fruit and veggies for a week. Feed her whole rodents only, and only those with a complete skeleton. Coat those rodents with a calcium supplement that does not contain phosphorous but does have D3. Get her a mercury vapor bulb of a good name (ZooMed, ExoTerra, MegaRay) and place it so that her basking spot attains a temp of 110-115. Her tremors should stop. If you can get her outside, get her some natural sun for at least an hour. After a week, resume the diet you were feeding her, and supplement any food that does not have bones (ground turkey, bugs, fruit, etc).

I can relate to everything you've said. The one question I've really been curious about and one I havne't found an answer to regardless of who I've asked is. How severe is this situation normally at the point the tremors begin. I know that's not an exact science without tests being done but. On a best case scenerio. How severe would have to be at the point it starts? I mean if this is headed off at the earliest point how severe at the point it starts had it evolved to. BTW I have already spoken to several people vets, techs, university Dr's. I have yet to found someone that could solidly say they knew. Not due to the fact "without testing I woudln't know" I mean. Just an "I don't know at best case scenerio at the earliest case the tremors show how severe it could be".

So far I have only offered her whole rodents as a diet since the tremors began. I am in the process of building an enclosure outdoors to permenently move her outdoors during the warm months.

I don't know if there is a general answer to that question. This is the point where blood work and/or x-rays come in handy. There are cases reported where animals have bone deformities but tremors were never reported. Then there are cases where the lizard has tremors but recovers without any apparent damage. In that scenario, it would appear that tremors are not indicative of a chronic disease.

If this is a calcium-related issue, here's an idea of what may be happening. For whatever reason, the level of calcium circulating in the blood is low. It is usually dietary because the overall diet is low in calcium, high in phosphorous, and/or low in Vit D. It can also be caused by improperly functioning organs or hormones, but that is not usually the case. Low calcium levels in the blood cause the nerves to be overly excited and when they rapid fire, the twitching muscle is what we see (tetany). Tetany is just a sign of something wrong...the lab levels tell you exactly how severe it is. Since the calcium affects muscle function, any muscle can be affected, including organs.

Muscles are more important than bone (think heart), so the body needs to protect itself. It release parathyroid hormone to leach the calcium from the bones in order to maintain proper blood calcium levels. This is when blood levels get tricky. An animal can appear to have a normal calcium level in a chronic problem because the bones are providing the calcium lacking in the diet. In an acute hypocalcemia problem, the blood levels would be low indicating recent onset before the body can compensate. Normal levels with poor bone density in an xray would lead one to believe it was chronic issue.

I'm not a vet and I don't play one on TV so run any of this by your vet to make sure they concur.

I wanted to add that since Vit D plays a role in the transport of calcium, it is imperative that it be added to the diet and maximum UV provided during the recovery phase, even before the outdoor enclosure is finished. All the calcium in the world can be added, but without Vit D, it can't be utilized properly.

Agreeing with everyone else, I don't think severity of hypocalcemia can be measured by visually looking at the animal. However, the tremors should have resolved by now.

You answered my question very well. I have asked quite a few people and many wasn't able to explain it nearly as well as you. Thank you for your replies.

Well, you're welcome and good luck with your tegu. I hope she's feeling better very soon.