Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Below is a copy paste of a thread from a forum I moderate...

Can anyone offer some advice so I can help this guy out??

Hi Everyone.

Can you help with some advice? Change in diet? anything hat will get her eating please.

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Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Dances With Reptiles

2.1.0 Thamnophis Infernalis- California Red Sided Garter Snakes
1.1.0 Flame X Erythristic Eastern Garter Snakes
2.0.0 Melanistic Thamnophis Sirtalis Sirtalis
1.0.0 Kansas Albino Red Sided Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis Golden / Albino cross
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis Anerythristic morph
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - axanthic morph
2.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Iowa Snow
1.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Snow Het
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Snow/Nebraska Albino double Het
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Christmas Albino
0.1.0 Thamnophis cyrtopsis Easter Black Neck Garter "MoJo"
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis Eastern Snow "Snowflake"
0.1.0 Thamnophis similis "true blue" This gal bites!
1.1.0. Thamnophis elegans vagrans Wandering Garter
2.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters
0.0.1 Thamnophis HybridAlbino Checkered Normal eastern"Mutt"
2.0.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters (xtreme orange phase)
0.0.0 Thamnophis butleriButler's Garter Snake (died)
0.0.1 Thamnophis proximus orariusCoastal Ribbon Snake
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - Eastern Garter baby
1.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis HET Anerythristic
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
1.0.0 Florida Black racer - fiesty yet way cool.
1.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snakes Pink eaters!
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" adult CB (pet store sale)
1.0.1. Pueblan Milk snakes "Oreo" adult & a '09 baby CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major"Limon"
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER" Getting Huge!
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal"
0.1.0 Oscar (Astronotus ocellatus) - "Peach" (A Monitor with fins)
1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cain" Rescued from a crack house
0.1.9 Eastern MilkSnake WC "Carmella" adult super sweet temperment
1.5.0 Storeria dekayi - Brown Snakes Casper, Xena, Athena, Copper, Sharon & others
1.1.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo, Diamond b/w cockapoo

My answer will piss you off but here you go these snakes brumate shortly after birth.Some babies will eat through the winter but all in all you should of let the snake brumate Know what your snakes research and do accordingly you have not done this.I will stop there as this always irritates me to no end when someone says a babie will not eat in winter.
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Archie Bottoms

Thanks, I may re-word that a little when I pass it along.

Myself, I am a garter guy, That's why I asked here.

Makes sense to me.

Appreciate it.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Dances With Reptiles

2.1.0 Thamnophis Infernalis- California Red Sided Garter Snakes
1.1.0 Flame X Erythristic Eastern Garter Snakes
2.0.0 Melanistic Thamnophis Sirtalis Sirtalis
1.0.0 Kansas Albino Red Sided Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis Golden / Albino cross
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis Anerythristic morph
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - axanthic morph
2.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Iowa Snow
1.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Snow Het
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Snow/Nebraska Albino double Het
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Christmas Albino
0.1.0 Thamnophis cyrtopsis Easter Black Neck Garter "MoJo"
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis Eastern Snow "Snowflake"
0.1.0 Thamnophis similis "true blue" This gal bites!
1.1.0. Thamnophis elegans vagrans Wandering Garter
2.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters
0.0.1 Thamnophis HybridAlbino Checkered Normal eastern"Mutt"
2.0.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters (xtreme orange phase)
0.0.0 Thamnophis butleriButler's Garter Snake (died)
0.0.1 Thamnophis proximus orariusCoastal Ribbon Snake
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - Eastern Garter baby
1.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis HET Anerythristic
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
1.0.0 Florida Black racer - fiesty yet way cool.
1.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snakes Pink eaters!
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" adult CB (pet store sale)
1.0.1. Pueblan Milk snakes "Oreo" adult & a '09 baby CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major"Limon"
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER" Getting Huge!
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal"
0.1.0 Oscar (Astronotus ocellatus) - "Peach" (A Monitor with fins)
1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cain" Rescued from a crack house
0.1.9 Eastern MilkSnake WC "Carmella" adult super sweet temperment
1.5.0 Storeria dekayi - Brown Snakes Casper, Xena, Athena, Copper, Sharon & others
1.1.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo, Diamond b/w cockapoo

BTW - Your passion does not piss me off.

In fact it bothers me that this guy force fed a hatchling!

I just hope he follows the advice.

Thanks again.
-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Dances With Reptiles

2.1.0 Thamnophis Infernalis- California Red Sided Garter Snakes
1.1.0 Flame X Erythristic Eastern Garter Snakes
2.0.0 Melanistic Thamnophis Sirtalis Sirtalis
1.0.0 Kansas Albino Red Sided Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis Golden / Albino cross
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis Anerythristic morph
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - axanthic morph
2.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Iowa Snow
1.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Snow Het
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Snow/Nebraska Albino double Het
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Christmas Albino
0.1.0 Thamnophis cyrtopsis Easter Black Neck Garter "MoJo"
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis Eastern Snow "Snowflake"
0.1.0 Thamnophis similis "true blue" This gal bites!
1.1.0. Thamnophis elegans vagrans Wandering Garter
2.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters
0.0.1 Thamnophis HybridAlbino Checkered Normal eastern"Mutt"
2.0.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters (xtreme orange phase)
0.0.0 Thamnophis butleriButler's Garter Snake (died)
0.0.1 Thamnophis proximus orariusCoastal Ribbon Snake
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - Eastern Garter baby
1.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis HET Anerythristic
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
1.0.0 Florida Black racer - fiesty yet way cool.
1.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snakes Pink eaters!
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" adult CB (pet store sale)
1.0.1. Pueblan Milk snakes "Oreo" adult & a '09 baby CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major"Limon"
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER" Getting Huge!
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal"
0.1.0 Oscar (Astronotus ocellatus) - "Peach" (A Monitor with fins)
1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cain" Rescued from a crack house
0.1.9 Eastern MilkSnake WC "Carmella" adult super sweet temperment
1.5.0 Storeria dekayi - Brown Snakes Casper, Xena, Athena, Copper, Sharon & others
1.1.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo, Diamond b/w cockapoo

Force feeding Is something I almost never do.I assist feed or tease feed.Unless you know what you are doing force feeding is a nono.I in fact do have a passion for hots atrox are easy.Most of the time they will do a couple of meals then brumate so that is how I keep new borns.I have had well over 1000 baby atrox out of that mabie 2 have died.They are in fact one of the easiest snakes to raise from birth.It is also the first snake I ever bred way back 1 million years ago.I do not catch them any more but visit the dens.I have a dwarf fourm that is very neat and wish to market them when I put a colony togather.I also have orange and cherry red ones.Atrox are easy he should of sought advice long ago.Some times a month at 55 will kick the feeding response in full force.Also pinkies are not always right as they will take a large fuzzy or small hopper days after birth.Some babies will not ever eat a pinkie,most will tho.
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Archie Bottoms

Thanks again!

There were 2 other replies on the original forum leaning in the same direction.

I personally have never kept any hots, but of the snakes I do breed, I have never had to force feed.

Thamnophis are normally born in the spring, so fussy eaters boil down to prey choice, I have picked up many a "non feeder" from breeders really cheaply that eat for me the same day the fed ex truck drops off the box.

Some of my other colubrids will go up to 60 days before ever showing interest in food.

This guy just joined the forum yesterday, and his opening post was the quote I pasted up here.

I look out for the animals best interest so much that well think about it, how many other moderators go seeking help for a noob on other forums??

-----
Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Thamnophis US
Dances With Reptiles

2.1.0 Thamnophis Infernalis- California Red Sided Garter Snakes
1.1.0 Flame X Erythristic Eastern Garter Snakes
2.0.0 Melanistic Thamnophis Sirtalis Sirtalis
1.0.0 Kansas Albino Red Sided Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis Golden / Albino cross
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis Anerythristic morph
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - axanthic morph
2.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Iowa Snow
1.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Snow Het
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Snow/Nebraska Albino double Het
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Christmas Albino
0.1.0 Thamnophis cyrtopsis Easter Black Neck Garter "MoJo"
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis Eastern Snow "Snowflake"
0.1.0 Thamnophis similis "true blue" This gal bites!
1.1.0. Thamnophis elegans vagrans Wandering Garter
2.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters
0.0.1 Thamnophis HybridAlbino Checkered Normal eastern"Mutt"
2.0.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters (xtreme orange phase)
0.0.0 Thamnophis butleriButler's Garter Snake (died)
0.0.1 Thamnophis proximus orariusCoastal Ribbon Snake
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - Eastern Garter baby
1.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis HET Anerythristic
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
1.0.0 Florida Black racer - fiesty yet way cool.
1.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snakes Pink eaters!
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" adult CB (pet store sale)
1.0.1. Pueblan Milk snakes "Oreo" adult & a '09 baby CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major"Limon"
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER" Getting Huge!
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal"
0.1.0 Oscar (Astronotus ocellatus) - "Peach" (A Monitor with fins)
1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cain" Rescued from a crack house
0.1.9 Eastern MilkSnake WC "Carmella" adult super sweet temperment
1.5.0 Storeria dekayi - Brown Snakes Casper, Xena, Athena, Copper, Sharon & others
1.1.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo, Diamond b/w cockapoo

I have basically two stategies for newborn rattlesnakes. The first one I leaned many years back with captive bred Blacktail rattlesnakes. My first brood was a bear to get going. One male ate lizards right away. The others just flat refused food for six months and then finally started o lizards. I did one force feeding in between. I knew female rattlesnakes usually guard their offspring thru the first week till they shed, so I left the babies with mom for that period and then removed them as I was afraid that if I fed her with them in the cage she might strike at one of the babies in a feeding responce.

I later learne that Greene and Hardy in their study on molossus were coming to the conclusion that although not in direct contact, baby molossus were often in the vicinity of their parents for up to a whole year, coming in and out of direct contact. They also thought the babies could be learning hunting strategies and imprinting on food items by tongue flicking the parents snakes muzzle after feeding. This happened to coincide with several observations I had made of finding baby cerbs and abyssus with their mothers well into the Spring, six months after birth. With subsequent broods of molossus and other rattlesnakes I started leaving the babies in with the mother for two months, feeding the mother the whole time. One month after birth I would remove the babies to individual containers and offer fuzzy mice. Food has never been refused by the molossus babies. 99% of the other species I have bred accept fuzzies right away also. I then put the babies back with mom after feeding.

With the few babies that don't accept mice after this strategy, I simply put them into a four month hibernation along with the rest of the collection. I started thislong ago with mountain kingsnakes. For me the babies always eat in spring when they come out of hibernation. Baby snakes have almost no metabolism until they eat their first meal which then kicks it in. People are just aggravating the problem when they panic and force feed as they then kickstart the metabolism. Just learning what happens innature and following that has always stood me well.

Rich

Very interesting and informative post Rich I like it and will try it.
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Archie Bottoms