Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This will piss you off. It made me quite angry being a snake enthusiast.

The actual paper had pictures of before and after the snake was beheaded and skinned.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/fl-everglades-python-hunt-031610-20100316,0,432052.story

Now today there is an uproar over the beheading saying it wasn't legal in the manner it was done.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/fl-python-killing-20100317,0,6260469.story

People that no nothing about what is really going on in the Everglades read this kind of crap and think that all snake are horrible un wanted pest like creatures.

just keeping an eye out.

Jeff

If you put a camera on some people they will do anything for attention.

If they had beheaded a feral cat they would be in jail and rightfully so but nothing will come of this not in Florida.

why is this supposed to get anyone here mad. We all agree burms aren't supposed to be there and I'm sure we could all agree it would be better for our hobby if those that are there are removed. My question for you is what should be done with the animals removed? Follow PETA's recommendation and use lethal injection on them? Well that would be expensive and nobody is going to be able to carry those drugs with them in the everglades as that would be illegal and it's better than smashing their head in over and over. The only thing that I'm peeved about is that this idiot did it on TV. I guess it's not all bad, he did show that the ones being caught aren't able to kill a man and that it only takes a hatchet to dispatch one. He also showed the other people out there that there is an industry available for the snakes that are taken from the everglades. I do think it's funny though that they held up a retic skin. I'm sure there are no wild breeding populations of them in the glades (could be wrong but don't think so).
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Josh & Krysty Hutto

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

>>My question for you is what should be done with the animals removed? Follow PETA's recommendation and use lethal injection on them?

Actually, at least in that Sun-Sentinel article, the PETA rep recommended pithing.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Just chill the snake first. So easy. The snake would feel nothing, wouldn't even resist. Shows you these PETAfiles really don't know very much about it.

>>Just chill the snake first. So easy. The snake would feel nothing, wouldn't even resist. Shows you these PETAfiles really don't know very much about it.

??

What's wrong with pithing? It's a lot quicker than chilling...
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

And a lot easier than trying to stuff a 10 or 15 foot snake into a frig! LOL!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

You can’t even agree that cooling the snake is more humane, can you?
OTOH,
You obviously want to tow the line with your PETA connection, so go ahead and advocate whatever they do. If the animal skin dealer doesn’t have a freezer or refrigerator big enough to put a snake in a bag for twenty minutes first, then I guess they should dump it on the floor, chop it’s head off with an axe and pith the brain or squash it with the axe handle. Whatever PETA says, right?

It's clear who's side amazondoc is on. She is not on our side and most of the people here will agree to that. She showed up in this forum about two weeks ago and has done nothing but correct, put down, and argued with just about everyone. She has ruined this forum. She is on the side of the Humane Siciety and Peta for sure. She even has a dog rescue. I would even bet she has ties to the Humane Society. All she is doing here is stirring the pot. Here agenda is not to help us at all.

>>She even has a dog rescue.

Oooo, how dare I have a dog rescue. LOL!

And CINDY...well, CINDY even has a REPTILE rescue. She must be REAAAAAAAALLLLLY bad.......
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

This is what you sais amazondoc
"And CINDY...well, CINDY even has a REPTILE rescue. She must be REAAAAAAAALLLLLY bad......."

Cindy is very helpfull and very positive here in the forums, you are not. You are also on the side of the animal rights groups, and I think it is safe to say that Cindy is not. You have been nothing but a trouble maker for the most part ever since you wandered into this forum. You don't keep big snakes, you don't want big snakes, you don't want people owning big snakes, so you really have no business being in a big snake forum. You belong in your want to be egg eating snake forum. You really must live a pathitic life to continue posting in a forum that you really have no interest in. If you want to stick someone's head in a refridgerator, start with your own. If not, how about crawling back under the rock that you crawled out from under.

>>This is what you sais amazondoc
>>"And CINDY...well, CINDY even has a REPTILE rescue. She must be REAAAAAAAALLLLLY bad......."
>>
>>Cindy is very helpfull and very positive here in the forums, you are not.

YOU think I'm not helpful or positive on *this* forum, because you tend to disagree with me.

>>You are also on the side of the animal rights groups

Baloney.

I'm on the side of the facts. When somebody makes a false claim -- like claiming that PETA was advocating beheading -- then I'll correct that false claim.

>>You have been nothing but a trouble maker for the most part ever since you wandered into this forum.

Try sticking to the facts, and you won't hear a peep out of me.

>>You don't keep big snakes, you don't want big snakes, you don't want people owning big snakes

Baloney again.

I have never said that I don't want people owning big snakes, and it is not true. Once again -- please try to stick with the facts.

>>so you really have no business being in a big snake forum.

I hate to break it to you, but this is a forum ABOUT pythons -- not one that is restricted to python owners.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Actually this is a forum about Burmese pythons.
Facts a-doc? facts. D.C.

>>Actually this is a forum about Burmese pythons.
>>Facts a-doc? facts. D.C.

Last time I checked, Burmese pythons ARE pythons.

My apologies, though, for not being specific enough to suit you.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Apology accepted.
BTW There is a GENERAL python forum on Kingsnake. That is where people can talk about all pythons.
The Burmese python forum usually pertains to Burmese and issues concerning Burmese. D.C.

>>Apology accepted.
>>BTW There is a GENERAL python forum on Kingsnake. That is where people can talk about all pythons.
>>The Burmese python forum usually pertains to Burmese and issues concerning Burmese. D.C.

Of course it does.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

>>It's clear who's side amazondoc is on. She is not on our side and most of the people here will agree to that. She showed up in this forum about two weeks ago and has done nothing but correct, put down, and argued with just about everyone. She has ruined this forum. She is on the side of the Humane Siciety and Peta for sure. She even has a dog rescue. I would even bet she has ties to the Humane Society. All she is doing here is stirring the pot. Here agenda is not to help us at all.

I almost pulled this post. Honestly.

I am the site coordinator for kingsnake.com and I run a reptile rescue as I have for 15 years. I sit on the board of directors of a purebred cat rescue and a bull breed dog rescue.

I have actively educated against both H$U$ and PETA for the last 15 years with my rescue and educational efforts.

There is a HUGE difference between the "Humane Society of the United States" and the humane society or rescue groups in your back yards. This is something everyone needs to realize before you go attacking groups. I have actively participated in public debates against PETA

There is a big divide between Animal Welfare and Animal Rights. You need to understand that divide before attacking folks. Our reptile community is a mix of a wide variety of people. Yes I do rescue, but I have also purchased animals and I am also active in conservation. I also prefer my steaks medium rare, so bear that in mind if you intend on taking me out in Daytona. I also fish and I would hunt if my husband would allow me to walk on uneven ground with a loaded firearm.

I am very anti legislation. I do not need my government telling me what snakes I can own.

I can not speak on Amazondocs affiliations, those are hers, but to assume everyone in rescue or the humane society community is affiliated with PETA is a slap in the face of many.

I would also like to remind everyone that this is verging on personal attacks. Debates are fine, but step it down a notch, take a deep breath. I want to allow debate, but we need to stop making this personal.
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Cindy Steinle
PHFaust
Visit kingsnake on Facebook!
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>>You can’t even agree that cooling the snake is more humane, can you?

More humane than what? Than pithing? No, it isn't more humane than pithing. Than chopping the head off? Maybe, I suppose in part depending on how the cooling is done.

>>OTOH,
>>You obviously want to tow the line with your PETA connection, so go ahead and advocate whatever they do.

What's wrong with pithing? Rather than just jerking your knee and assuming it must be bad because PETA recommended it, take a moment to actually think about it. What's wrong with it?

>>If the animal skin dealer doesn’t have a freezer or refrigerator big enough to put a snake in a bag for twenty minutes first, then I guess they should dump it on the floor, chop it’s head off with an axe and pith the brain or squash it with the axe handle. Whatever PETA says, right?

One more time -- PETA never advocated chopping the head off. Please try to stick with what they actually did say.

I'll ask you again -- what's wrong with pithing?
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Are you going to use a four foot long pith? Or are you going to pin the snake down, restrain it by the neck and then stick your pith in it’s brain? From what I recall in basic biology class, the pith is used to keep the animal alive so that when you dissect, you can see the heart still beating. They did say pith and scramble the brains though, didn’t they? Well have fun with that you PETAfiles.

What's wrong with cooling?

>>Are you going to use a four foot long pith? Or are you going to pin the snake down, restrain it by the neck and then stick your pith in it’s brain? From what I recall in basic biology class, the pith is used to keep the animal alive so that when you dissect, you can see the heart still beating. They did say pith and scramble the brains though, didn’t they?

Yes, pithing does scramble the brains. That's the point. No brain = no suffering. So what's wrong with it?

>>
>>What's wrong with cooling?

Hey, you're the one who was complaining about the expense of an *injection*. A refrigerator costs a lot more than a pithing tool -- and it's harder to take with you out into the field, too. There's nothing all that wrong with cooling -- but pithing is a lot more portable.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

">>Are you going to use a four foot long pith? Or are you going to pin the snake down, restrain it by the neck and then stick your pith in it’s brain? From what I recall in basic biology class, the pith is used to keep the animal alive so that when you dissect, you can see the heart still beating. They did say pith and scramble the brains though, didn’t they?

Yes, pithing does scramble the brains. That's the point. No brain = no suffering. So what's wrong with it?

>>
>>What's wrong with cooling?

Hey, you're the one who was complaining about the expense of an *injection*. A refrigerator costs a lot more than a pithing tool -- and it's harder to take with you out into the field, too. There's nothing all that wrong with cooling -- but pithing is a lot more portable."

What is wrong with pithing, and maybe beheading depending on the individual, is that it may not be "humane" for the person doing the pithing. Cooling would be preferred in my experience, as long as the animal can be placed into the freezer (size?), which is how I've done it before when I did my shelter work with reptiles. Pithing just may not be for everyone.

Also, the drugs used for lethal injections maybe controlled substances and may require a DVM to be involved, not sure how Florida does it or what they are using. I would think the average trapper could find a freezer before they can gain access to sodium pentobarbital, which is a schedule II barbiturate, if that is what they are using.

>>What is wrong with pithing, and maybe beheading depending on the individual, is that it may not be "humane" for the person doing the pithing.

ANY method can be inhumane if done incorrectly.

>>Cooling would be preferred in my experience, as long as the animal can be placed into the freezer (size?), which is how I've done it before when I did my shelter work with reptiles. Pithing just may not be for everyone.

You can't carry a frig. out into the Glades, and big snakes will require big refrigerators -- as well as taking longer to chill.

>>Also, the drugs used for lethal injections maybe controlled substances and may require a DVM to be involved, not sure how Florida does it or what they are using.

Which, I would assume, is one of the reasons why pithing was recommended.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Oh sorry -- it was Josh, not you, who was complaining about the cost of injections. A refrigerator is still much more expensive than either injections or pithing, but I attributed the complaint to the wrong person. My apologies!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Python killers are animal killers. Snakes are animals too. The most humane method should be used when it is necessary to end the life of any animal. All reptiles become dormant from even slightly cold temperatures. It makes sense that if you are able to chill them, they can be killed in a more humane manner. The newspaper article shows a less than humane method. Still works, but it left a lot of people feeling sympathetic to the python, perhaps for the first time. That made me happy. When I worked for Animal Control, the press had a field day when our director suggested breaking the eggs of nesting Muscovy ducks as a way to cull the population. Abortion rights people jumped in and said that was wrong. Everybody had an agenda. Like the old saying, there’s more than one way to skin a cat. Oops, maybe a bad expression.

My agenda has always been to beg everyone to understand why the python is thriving in the first place. There is fossil evidence that giant constrictors once roamed the everglades. I think natives are dying off because the habitat that once favored them does not exist anymore, or is in transition, as it always is. The conditions today are obviously more favorable for the return of a large bodied constrictor. I say it is normal evolution and we should accept the pythons and leave them alone. We are not going to return the habitat to where it was when the most recent native reptiles flourished. Therefore, you have to accept the pythons (or whatever fills the void created by the disappearance of the other snakes) or accept nothing being there at all. I much prefer the pythons to nothing at all. The groups against the pythons are also the groups whose ultimate goal has always been that there is nothing there at all. I’m against that. The everglades region can thrive, just accept that it won’t be the same as the field guide from fifty or a hundred years ago, today, or fifty years from now. There will probably be emus, capybara, pouched rats, and macaws. So what? Better than a lifeless zone. You want to pave it though, don’t you? Admit it.

The biggest threat to the ENP is man. Man has destroyed so much of the ENP that a lot of the native species have lost their natural habitat. Animals need room to roam, and to continue to live. You can't take a group of animals that once occupied 100 acres, and expect them to thrive in 10 acres. These numbers are for an example, I know the ENP is much bigger. I believe the state is going to buy back some land from U.S. Sugar, but even so, it is completely stripped of all life. Man is causing these animals to become endangered and they are using the burms to cover their own butts. If you want to save the ENP and the animals, stop covering it with concrete and asphault. Stop blaiming the burms.

I agree with you, but the land has changed so much you can not expect the same animals to thrive there. There are animals that weren’t there before because of how it was, and animals that will find it perfect now. As long as it is a refuge for wildlife, no matter what comprises the actual list, is o.k. with me. I don’t care if it is deer or porcupines, I want it to be a natural area where animals can live. Any animal that finds a home there. I am against saying it has to stay the way it was in 1945 or whatever year they are choosing out of their ass. Stagnation is the beginning of wildlife death. The python is a sign the region is adapting wonderfully. Preserving stagnation is the same as wanting it all gone.

The land has changed big time. But what man is doing, is saying that the burms are the reason the wildlife is disappearing. That is just plain bull crap. The animals are disappearing because of what man has done to the region as a whole. The burms don't bother me either, but I am just your average Joe. The ENP is nothing like it was 60 years ago. That is what the general public does not understand. They think everything is just the way it is supposed to be, with the exception of the burms being there. What once was, has been destroyed, what is now, needs to be accepted for what it is. You can't go back in time.

Wise.

I think in the case of those stupid rats they are becoming endangered because they just lost life's lotto. Apparently they only have 2 or 3 babies once or twice a year. That doesn't sound like a very good survival strategy for a rodent on the bottom of the food chain if you ask me. Man may be helping them along a bit but they don't really need much help there. Most of the animals that lived on this planet are already extinct and a lot of them got that way long before man was here. Those rats sound like one of the stragglers. Perhaps we could catch the remaining ones and give them to 5 year olds who want hamsters and their breeding success will improve.

>>The groups against the pythons are also the groups whose ultimate goal has always been that there is nothing there at all. I’m against that. The everglades region can thrive, just accept that it won’t be the same as the field guide from fifty or a hundred years ago, today, or fifty years from now. There will probably be emus, capybara, pouched rats, and macaws. So what? Better than a lifeless zone. You want to pave it though, don’t you? Admit it.

Oh puhleez, this last part (the part about "nothing there at all" and "you want to pave it" is just complete baloney. I would use a stronger term, but I do try to be polite.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Oh puhleez elaborate, won’t you? What do you really want? Be honest.

>>Oh puhleez elaborate, won’t you? What do you really want? Be honest.

Peace on earth, good will towards men.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

He wants Christmas in April?! Thats just so wrong! VM

>>He wants Christmas in April?! Thats just so wrong! VM

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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

You can't say what you really want on this forum, can you? Your invisibility can not hide your transparency.

>>You can't say what you really want on this forum, can you? Your invisibility can not hide your transparency.

Ooo, I'm invisible AND transparent? That's a new one.

Sorry, Upscale. I'm not very interested in helping you to target me -- especially given that personal attacks are usually used to distract attention from the issues under discussion. Look up the term "argumentum ad hominem" some time.
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

You took issue with something I wrote, and said it was complete baloney. That was the issue under discussion. I asked you to please elaborate and honestly say what you really want. I thought it was telling you used the smiley nodding his approval right after the “you want to pave it” quote.

>>You took issue with something I wrote, and said it was complete baloney. That was the issue under discussion.

Correct. THAT was the issue under discussion -- not what **I** want.

>>I asked you to please elaborate and honestly say what you really want. I thought it was telling you used the smiley nodding his approval right after the “you want to pave it” quote.

I didn't actually insert any smiley. For some reason the system here inserts winking smileys when you close a parenthesis -- ) -- immediately after a quote -- ". Thus " appears -- " ) without the spaces -- even though no smiley was intended.

Try again, but try sticking to the issue this time!
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0.1 Peruvian rainbow boa (Amaru)
2.0 Brazilian rainbow boas (Arco, Olho)
0.3 Honduran milksnakes (Chicchan, Chanir, Hari)
1.0 Thayeri kingsnake (Coatl)
2.7 corns (Cetto, Tolosa, Uce, TBA)
1,000,000.1,000,000 other critters

Whats wrong with pithing "Fluffy" the feral kitty?

Believe it or not a .410 slug will take fluffy's head clean off. Very quick less chance of being bitten or scratched. Very effective way for other feral fluffy's to get the message that hassling meat rabbits and quail is a bad idea.

Well you know Jesus WAS really born sometime in may or june. April's a lot closer than December.