Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A couple of girls gave us 2 clutches last week from a half dwarf het albino granite to a half dwarf het albino granite. This is a project we've been working on since 2006. We bred a dwarf burm male that was 5 1/2 feet long (he's still only 5 1/2 feet) to a full sized albino granite female in 2006 and got a clutch of eggs in 2007. The babies have grown to 8 feet for females and 6 feet for males. They were about this size last year but didn't breed.

This is the first clutch that was laid on 4/5. The female is on breeder loan from Justin McBrayer. 21 eggs.

Her on the eggs.

The second clutch was laid on 4/7 from 2 of our half dwarf het albino granites. 15 eggs.

Her on the eggs with a 20 to show her scale.

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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

Will some of the babies be super dwarfs? For some reason I am thinking 25% would be super dwarf. Yes, no, maybe?

Congrats and good luck with them. These half dwarf animals truly are amazing. They are perfect sized animal. The visible morph F2s are staying considerably smaller than the F1 generation. The visible F2s are now 2 years old and are between 4'-5'...on a heavy diet. There is still alot of work to be done with these animals. The half dwarfs really could change the way that burms are kept.

Congrats again,
Tom

Would the F2 half dwarfs be considered super dwarfs? I am trying to figure this out. I know in retics the super dwarf is smaller then the dwarf and when you breed two dwarfs together you get some super dwarfs.

I would not consider the F2s super dwarfs at all. I would simply say that the half dwarf F2 genertation animals seeme to be staying smaller than the original half dwarf F1 generations. Keep in mind too, we are still dealing with a v-e-r-y small representation of visible morph F2 offspring (in the hands of only a few keepers)from which to base the data. However, the data seems to be consistent. There are some theories as to why the F2 half dwarfs are remaining smaller...Michelle brought up a very astute theory to me the other day. I'll let her share it if she wants to.

I think that in order to take this project any further and consider an animal to be named something different due to it's size, one would have to change the breeding recipe. A dwarf would now have to be bred back to the mature half dwarfs to produce 3/4 dwarf offspring. That wouldn't even be possible until next year at the earliest. Until then, all we can say that the offspring (both F1 and F2) are "half dwarf" knowing that the F2 half dwarfs seem to stay smaller than the initial breedings of dwarf to full sized animal to create the F1 half dwarf.

Those are my thoughts.

Tom

How is the temperament of the initial dwarf X full sized morph and then the next generation of those bred together? Someone produce a nice small double het green labyrinth pair and I might not be able to resist (good thing I probably couldn't afford them as I can't imagine there are many if any adult green labyrinths to cross to dwarf).

Congrats on the shot at small granite albinos OP! I guess they will not hatch in time will you bring to the next Denver show but maybe the one after that?

The original dwarf sire was imported as a wild caught adult in 2004. We got him in 2006, he was quite a handful for the first year or so. I worked with him little by litlle and now he's mostly tame, still gets on edge around any fast movement.

The parents of these clutches have always had the temperment of normal sized burms, a little fiesty at birth, but tamed down quickly.

Sorry, the babies won't be at the show in May. They are due to hatch on May 31 & June 2. I'm sure they will be at the August show and we will probably bring at least one of the adults also.
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

We have a theory that the F2's will stay smaller than the F1's because of the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). The mtDNA is passed on by the mother, and is more powerful than nuculear DNA (passed by the father). The size of the female will be passed on by the mtDNA and create an equally if not smaller offspring.

The dwarf gene is very powerful. We originally felt that the half dwarfs would be at least 10 feet, but they have stopped right around 8 feet. The males are even smaller, they are right around 6 feet. The F1's received their dwarf DNA from the male. This is why we think that the F2's will be even smaller. We should get some indication when they hatch by their weights. We know that the normal sized burms hatch weight is around 150 grams, half dwarfs hatched at 90-105 grams. If these come out smaller, we feel fairly confident that they will remain smaller as adults.
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

I like what you've said. That's what it's all about. Proving theories and learning stuff. Demonstrating abilities, as well.
Thanks for your good works.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Thanks Tom. When are you going to have eggs? We have one more girl that just ovulated and another that has some big follicles.

I think I've given up on breeding normal sized burms. We bred our het lucy male to our albino green and she gave us 59 duds. I have pretty good luck when a dwarf is involved though.

How is the carmel coming along?
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

I have a couple of clutches cooking now and a couple more on the way. Two of the half dwarfs double het albino/ granite (siblings of yours) have laid. The fertility rate on those has been excellent. It's too early to be sure about anything else. ...too many variables. I don't get too excited until I see little heads popping out of eggs. If any caramels do emerge, it will be very few.

We'll talk soon-

Tom

They are exceptional looking.

Kelly

Thanks Kelly.
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

Congratulations on the good eggs of an exciting project! Persistence pays off. Good job!

Later!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

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