Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am a new mom of a yellow Saharan Uro. He/she is approximately 9 months old (breeder wasn't sure), 7 1/2 inches and 48 chubby grams. I am an experienced beardie and leo keeper, but am new to uros. I've worked with them at a reptile rescue but have never owned one so I need some assistance with care, etc.

How and when can you sex a young uro? My vet thinks he's a male because he has enlarged femoral pores, however, his belly is white and he really isn't bright yellow. I don't know if this is because he/she is a juvenile or I've got a female.

With diet, I was told to feed insects for the first year of life. Is this true? I know too much animal protein can damage the liver and I want to get my little one off to a great start. Right now he eats small mealies (won't touch crix), lentils, spring mix minus spinach, dandelion, mustard, turnip greens.

He does seem to want to hide/burrow a lot. I want to handle him, but don't want to stress him out. Are they friendly and like to be handled?

Any and all help with Ubie (short for uro baby) is greatly appreciated. I hope to be a great uro mom!

Thanks,

Saundra

Saharans are usually pretty easy to sex once they're adults, but a juvie will be more difficult for you. From what I understand, they start showing belly color by a year of age or so. Usually that will tell you, but it's not 100% reliable. Pores aren't reliable - hemipenal bulges are better. Head shape can help you decide, too, once it's grown.

I wouldn't bother with the bugs - they don't need them. Add in some endive, escarole, and dandelion, and some shredded veggies like butternut and zucchini squash, parsnips, and green beans. Spring mix isn't really all that great overall. Too many lettuces and inappropriate greens. It's fine as a base, but not alone.

Make sure he has several low, snug places to hide in different temp zones. Don't bother him when he's hiding, and avoid handling him as much as possible for at least a month or so to let him get acclimated to his new home. Some uros are friendly enough, but some never get comfortable with people. And even the friendliest uro can't be handled a lot like a beardie or leo. You can usually have plenty of interaction eventually, but they're lousy lap lizards, and they're often shy at first.
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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.1.3 Saharan Uros (Joe, Arthur, Hitch, Lefty, and Skywalker)
3.0 Mali Uros (Spike, Turtle, and Tank)
1.1 Ornate Uros (Scuttlebutt and Shazzbot)
1.3 Collared Lizards (Ripcord, Thiamine, Riboflavin, and Niacin)
2.0 Green Anoles (Bowser and Sprocket)
1.1 Chubby Housecats (Roscolux and Jenny)

Thanks!! He/she is the cutest thing! He has a tunnel and a low, hidey hole cave on the cool end. He really doesn't seem to be very interested in greens...just mealies but I don't want him to get used to those things. He hasn't shown any interest in blueberries, strawberries, butternut squash, etc. I've tried throwing these into his salad. I guess eventually he'll have to eat them. I'm assuming he's 9 months old, but the pet store who ordered him said they never know how old the lizards are. He took a flight from California to get to me! I was curious if he was a boy or girl so he/she doesn't have an identity problem later on!LOL

Thanks for responding. Any and all information/suggestions/care is GREATLY appreciated!

Saundra

(1 1.0 9 yr old German giant beardie
2 0.1 4 yr old leos
1 1.0 betta
1 1.0 albino African clawed frog
2 1.0 cockateils)

Just a quick thought on the age... my LARGEST CB Geyri was at 7.0" and 51g at 13 months old. Smallest was 6.25" and 38g at 13months. Assuming the Uro was born in July/August of a given year, at that size I would assume the Uro at this point is probably a WC, or was shy and grew at a slow rate for the first year, making it approx. in the area of 18-20 months old. Just my guess. Could have been hatched late in the year, but doubtful it has reached over 7" in just 9 months. My largest back in december was 7.75" and 68g at 17months old. Hopefully that comparison helps a bit

Thanks!! You know how pet stores/some breeders are. So it's possible my little one isn't a little one? Since his/her belly is white and I really don't see any hemipenal bulges, just femoral pores, is it safe to assume that it's a female? The head isn't really large and he/she still has some slight yellow banding on his/her back. I don't think anyone in this area is too familiar with this breed. All I've seen has been malis. It's really funny because the vet said his age was around 6 months when I got him in January. Everything I've read has said Saharans grow to 12-14". True? Well, there is one thing Ubie isn't going to be happy about, NO MORE MEALIES!!!LOL

Thanks for all your help!

Saundra

Oh yeah, not to sound too stupid, but what's WC??? I'm guessing without calcium. (does that sound REALLY dumb, or what?!) I forgot to mention I'm blonde!LOL

WC is wild caught which is very typical for this type of Uro. When I was shopping around, most were advertised as Wild Caught but the ones that were being sold as Captive Bred were suspicious to me for various reasons. What I've seen about your particular type, is that most are WC and they tend to be difficult to acclimate successfully (they are known to crash... www.deerfernfarms.com is just ONE good place to research) so, if it were me, I'd listen closely to the experienced urophiles here (sounds like you are already) and just keep an eye on her health. Best of luck to you and your new little one and post pics when you can!

Molly

2 baby Banded Uros=)

I would be suspicious of any vendor selling CB animals other than the very reputable and known uro breeders. No slight to the vendors, but most just broker the animals as what they purchased them as, and do not know for sure.

As far as sexing, sounds like your uro may be too young/small to accurately sex at this point. Some uros take three to five years to reach full adult maturity and display full adult coloration. I have a mali about 10 inches long and close to five years old that I am finally comfortable calling female based on coloration at her size LOL!! I have her housed with a supposed male, but he is only about seven inches long and needs to grow more to determine if actually male. So far he is showing juvie/female coloration.

Good luck!
KevinM

It's funny that you mentioned that. The pet store (a local reputable herp dealer) said Ubie was from a breeder in California and they only indicated what animals were available. After reading up on Saharans (yes, I did read Deer Fern Farms and even tried to contact Doug Dix without success), it appears that most of this species is WC. Ubie did have pinworms and strongeloides when I got him but after panacur, he has had 4 clean fecals. He loves to hide and burrow under his substrate (paper towels & newspaper) and hide in his cave. He does come out and bask and get his mealies, but he is not "excited" about his salads which does concern me. Should I discontinue the insects even though I believe he is under 1 yr old? I do handle him, and he loves to snuggle in my pockets and under my sweaters. I just wish he would wander around a little more rather than try to find a hiding place. Is this common for uros? I wish I had a more accurate indication of age/sex. He/she is the sweetest little one, and, like I always said, there is nothing as precious as a uro face! I appreciate any suggestions on making Ubie happy and healthy and any uro facts I should know.

I will take some pix and post them.

Thanks!

Saundra

Let's get some more info. How long have you had Ubie? And can you describe the cage? How large is it in inches and what are the temperatures throughout the cage? What kind of thermometer are you using? What are your heat sources? And what kind of UVB do you provide? How often do you handle her and for how long at a time?

The answers to these might help us help you get her acting like uros should (active and curious). My initial thought is that temps are too low, but without knowing the other stuff, that's just a guess.

I would abandon the mealies. Try offering only salads for at least a week or two. When she gets hungry, she'll eat - and a few days without eating is OK. You can make the salads more appealing by adding bee pollen granules (in the fridge at a health food store), thawed frozen green peas, or edible flowers like dandelions or pansies (no pesticides!). You can also try chopping the salad differently - try bigger hunks or chopping it finely. Sometimes a different texture will help.
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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.1.3 Saharan Uros (Joe, Arthur, Hitch, Lefty, and Skywalker)
3.0 Mali Uros (Spike, Turtle, and Tank)
1.1 Ornate Uros (Scuttlebutt and Shazzbot)
1.3 Collared Lizards (Ripcord, Thiamine, Riboflavin, and Niacin)
2.0 Green Anoles (Bowser and Sprocket)
1.1 Chubby Housecats (Roscolux and Jenny)

I'll give you the exact dimensions of Ubie's enclosure when i get home to measure. I can tell you he/she is in a 20 gallon long aquarium at this point. The basking side is 120-130 degrees and the cool end is around 85. I have a digital thermometer that I place on each end of the enclosure to check the temps. She has a basking lamp and an 18" long 5.0 UVB. The vet said at this point it is preferrable to the all in one bulb. She is handled every day for around 1-2 hours. Of course, if I get home from work and she is already sleeping, I don't disturb her. Some of that time is spent napping in my pocket or in my sweater. She/he walks around, but is always looking to hide. I was hoping he would like to explore a little more and check out his world. He does come out of his cave several times during the day to bask and walk around his enclosure a bit. He/she was flown in from California on January 21, and I picked her up on January 25. The pet store wanted to make sure she was acclimating well, and was eating. As I said, he/she is currently 7 1/2 inches (hasn't shed yet) and around 48 grams. Her belly is white, and he/she has juve banding on her back. There are pronouced femoral pores.

I am DEFINITELY switching to all veggies today. I'll try your suggestions as well.

Thanks for everything!! I'm looking forward to getting more info and learning more about my new friend!

Well, unfortunately I haven't handled Ubie for 2 days. I had to see to a 2 yr old mali that came in to the rescue. The poor little guy has tapeworms, burns on his feet and an injured right arm!! He needed a lot of tlc.

All the info in my prior post is the same. I actually spoke with Doug and have ordered his suppllements, Mazuri tortoise pellets for Ubie.

Do you think I should handle him/her every day? When I put my hand in his/her enclosure, he/she seems to be ok with that. It's when I go to pick him/her up and/or place the food dish in that he/she hides. How do I encourage curiosity? Anything I should do differently?

Thanks, again!

Ok a few things here that are a major concern.

1. 20gallon long is often referred to as a 'uro-killer' It is WAY too small. Your minimum size should be a 75 gallon tank (48"x18"x18". Uro's need a thermal gradient, meaning there is a gradual change from the warm end to the cool end.
Also, you should get an IR (infra-red) temp gun to measure surface temp of the basking area, this should be between 120-130F.
Ideally, you should have a 4'x2'x2' enclosure, but the 75 gallon tank is a reasonable price if you can find a used one on craigslist and clean it very well.

2. 5.0 UVB bulb. these things honestly are junk. Do yourself a big favor. When you get a larger tank you will need a good MVB (mercury vapor bulb) these produce heat for basking as well as UVB at the proper output levels. Try T-Rex or Mega-Ray (reptileuv.com). a 160w self-ballasted bulb should get you to almost perfect basking temps by itself.
"The vet said at this point it is preferrable to the all in one bulb." the vet is an idiot when it comes to uromastyx, sorry but there are maybe a handful of vets who even know what a uromastyx really is at this point.

3. Handling
"She is handled every day for around 1-2 hours"
This is causing serious undue stress! Stop immediately. Uro's do not like handling and should NOT be removed from their heat source for more then a few minutes. Their body temps need to be kept high for metabolism and by taking her out of her enclosure is allowing her body temps to drop to nighttime temperatures. (75-80F)

4. Food
No insects, ever. Stick to the greens, they are vegetarians.
I would also be weary about the mazzuri pellets and 'uromastyx dust' doug sells. I tried them, didnt turn out so well. My Uro's has issues defecating and actually lost weight over the month-2 months i fed those items. Of course this is your choice, I would just closely monitor the Uro's weight if you choose to use these products.

The most serious issue here is the tank. you need an upgrade ASAP. If you can find a 75 gallon aquarium on craigslist, see if the person kept fresh or salt water. Hopefully it is freshwater, as this is much easier to clean up before setting it up for your Uro. Good luck.

Thanks! The reptile rescue center I volunteer at should have a 75 gal or larger that a herp was kept in so the water type wouldn't be an issue. I also heard some things about uro-dust so I was surprised Doug said to use it. I was also surprised he said to give her a few insects 2X/week as well. I was ready to discontinue all insects when he told me he/she was over 1 yr old. The little guy/girl is 7 1/2". I was using a calcium supplement that my vet recommended. What supplementation would you recommend? She also isn't too keen on her salads. She does like dried lentils. Any ideas on when I'll be able to reasonably guess at his/her sex? He/she has a plain white belly with enlarged femoral pores. The color is a bit drab with some banding and yellow on the sides.

I think I overstated the handling. Also, when my uro is with me, she likes to "suck up my body heat" and take a nap. At what temperature is it ok to take them outside? My beardie will go out at 70-75, but I don't want my uro to get too cold.

Thanks for the input!! I'll be visiting the rehab center and pet store later to get my little one off to a good start!

hello bindidragon, rtl says to run out and get the megaray/ t-rex bulb but right now they are having problems so it would be wise to pass on that until this problem is fixed. unless you can find a t-rex active uv manufactured before october 2009. if the bulb has problems the lizard will soon end up avoiding the bulb , and how will you tell if it is having problems acclimating or just avoiding the bulb?
for now the exoterra solar-glo is a good bulb- minimum distance from lizard=12"

Actually the problem has been resolved. Reptile-uv has added a coating to their bulbs until new ones have been manufactured (Which I believe has been corrected now last I heard) and T-Rex is replacing all the bad bulbs with new ones.

"soaking up body heat" is a load of crap for Uromastyx. All their heat intake is from the sun above them. They cannot feel heat on their belly's which is why you should NEVER use a heat rock of any kind with a Uro. They will lay there and cook themselves without even knowing it.

Sex you will have to wait and see, could be a few years before there is a definite answer to that.

I use MinerALL once a week, but if your having issues with the Uro eating the greens, I would not use any supplements until he/she is eating regularly. I have never fed any of my Uro's crickets at all, from 2 months old to 4 yrs old none have ever had a single cricket

Thanks, guys!! I'm heading out after work today to get Ubie his new bulbs. I would NEVER give any of my reptiles a hot rock!! I have seen way too many belly/foot burns from those nasty things. Should I offer Ubie salads with no supplementation until he/she starts to devour them? He/she does seem to like dried lentils and canteloupe. I'm going to plant some pansies and nasturtiums for my little one. He/she can share a hibiscus plant with my big beardie. Ubie usually goes to bed around 5:00 pm. Is this normal? When can he/she go outside? The poor little one is going to have an identity crisis for years!?!? Actually, he/she probably knows if they're a girl or boy, it's just me who's in the dark!

Thanks for all your help! I want to get all the knowledge I can to give my guy/girl a long, happy, healthy life!

Yes stick to just greens for now, I would also leave out any of the dried foods until you notice the greens being devoured on a regular basis. Also, Uro's are much faster then you think, if you take it outside, say goodbye. Only by providing a HUGE escape proof and predator proof enclosure is going to work outside... probably not too ideal for most people. and DEFINITELY DO NOT put the Uro on one of those lizard leaches!

Believe me, I would NEVER put any of my reptiles on one of those "leashes!!" I did get a ginuea pig cage with extremely small separation between bars for Ubie to get some natural UVB. I have already experienced the speed of little uro feet when he/she scurried under the entertainment center. Needless to say, no more forays on the floor. They are even faster than baby beardies!! I do wish he/she could get some exercise outside of his/her enclosure. All Ubie wants to do is burrough, though. Ubie does appear to like canteloupe. How often is it "acceptable" to offer fruit?

My little one is sooo cute!! There's nothing like a uro face!

Thanks for your help!

Ubie has been really antisocial this week, and when I walk into the room, he/she walks into his/her cave. He/she'll peek out at me, but that's about it. What can I do to encourage the little one to come out once again?

Anyone with Saharan's who can offer a bit of insight into their behaviors, attitudes, etc. feel free to relate anything! I want my baby to have a great life!

I think Ubie may be punishing me for cutting off the mealies!LOL