Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Do these occur naturally? If so does anybody have pics?

I think it could have a cool name The scrubber.I have never herd of one but I bet they exist.After seeing the klauberi prici hybred that occures naturally in rock slides in the santa ritas I would believe anything.It was one cool snake.
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Archie Bottoms

I vote for "Scuter"

Randal

Do you have any photos of this "klauberi pricei hybrid"? There has never been any published record of one so that would be very interesting to see!

They are documented, a friend has the picture His name is Ryan he is here in Lubbock if you know him he will be glad to show you.He is a very private person tho if you do not know him he wont show you.But I will ask him to post it or send a copy to me to post but He most likely will not.Where they are found is a known place not just to him but many people.These animals are well documented but I do not know where or by who.There are also some klauberi \willardi hybreds in the hachuchas as well.
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Archie Bottoms

Ryan Blakely a private person? LOL! He'a whore for attention! LOL!

Randal Berry

That was before he became a fireman now he is just a slut.LOL.Seriously he has the picture but does not post at all on forums but I will ask him.
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Archie Bottoms

Scutes seem to hybridize rather readily with other species they are sympatric with. However,scutes and ruber don't actually overlap in range to my knowledge although they do come close.

Rich

Damn Randal you did it again I will have to vote with you .
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Archie Bottoms

I like that name for it too. Wonder if anyone will try this with captive born specimens (provided they have both of opposite sexes. My reason for fascination is due to the coontail feature. I would love to see the coontail on this hybrid.

Actually I think a lot of the features of either would wash out in the mix and look rather atrox. I have seen some intentional captive bred scutes X atrox that looked amazingly like desert rubers.

Rich

Good point. However, both the mojave and red diamond have wider white bands than black (unlike atrox) on the coontail and one can help but wonder how this feature would transition on a hybrid of the two. It would be nice if one crosses a ruber with an albino scute (see here: http://fullsp.com/Rattlesnakes/slides/Crotalus scutulatus albino 1.html ) Hopefully someone (-cough-Brad Alexander-cough-) might try it in captivity. Like ASAP!!!

I think it would still just be a black and white coontail. With the exception of adamanteus X horridus hybrids which have been known to occur naturally and are quite beautiful, most rattlesnake hybrids I have seen lose their unique characteristics and just become rather bland generic looking snakes. I especially see no point in crossbreeding snakes that do not occur together in the wild. As far as the albino scut X ruber, personally, I would hope that never happens. If a true albino ruber were to be found one day it would ruin the whole deal. Nobody would look twice at the albino rubers as they would never trust whether they were the real deal or one of the mutts from the scutulatus lineage. Just like with using albino ruthvens kingsnakes to crossbreed and create albino alternas, pyros etc. There supposedly is a true line of albino pyros out there now, but absolutely nobody trusts where any albino montane kingsnakes originated now due to the sullied lineages.

Rich

I'm with you on the sullied lineages. For example, amelanistic Pacific Gopher snakes were bred with San Diego gopher snakes to pass on the gene (so it is dubious if any amel San Diego is pure or has Pacific in its background). Just like the amelanistic Egyptian Sand Boas being bred with Kenyan for the same reason (See Reptiles magazine Nov 96 page 6). Yet people still buy these. I guess I'm just itching to see an albino ruber SO BAD and hope they come in as many variaties as Atrox albinos for the simple fact that I've heard rubers are placid compared to atrox. Makes me wonder what an anerythristic Red Diamond would look like.
I also gotta agree with you on hybrids not coming close to the beauty of either of its parents. What does an adamanteus/horridus cross look like anyway? Google image searches yield nothing really clear.

EDB/horridus hybrid can look a lot like this:

Very nice. The head pattern is very unique and the diamonds characteristic of atrox slowly morphing into crossbars indicative of horridus are a dead give away as to what its parents are. Makes me wonder what a horridus/molossus would look like. JUST WONDERING AND NO I AM NOT ADVOCATING ANYONE TO HABITUALLY PRACTICE THESE CROSSES!!!

That animal has no atrox in it LOL.
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Archie Bottoms

What I meant to say was "adamanteus." SORRY.