Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Short version: I'm looking for some help in deciding on an animal to add to my free reptile education program. Should I go with a male Blood or a Borneo? I'm currently a student getting my teaching certification, so my budget is tight. Where should I go to get a nice 'poster child' snake for the public to interact with?

The whole story:
I run a very small and free reptile outreach program in my spare time. It's my attempt to change the general opinion of all things scaly one person at a time. I frequently do this as a form of street performance, as I spend my summers in Michigan's biggest tourist hub, Mackinac Island, I end up with audiences from around the world. Whoever I get my snake from will get world-wide advertising for their breeding business!

I love snakes and want to have some amazing animals to use to teach people that snakes are not monsters, but amazing, varied, beautiful, and threatened animals. I have lectures planned based around the skin trade and the growth of the captive breeding. I don't want to deal with the size problems that a burm or retic would pose, but I would love to have a larger snake to use as a hands-on animal, and the Bloods seem ideal for this. Do you think a Blood or a Borneo would be a good animal for me?

I'm having trouble deciding on whether to get a Blood or a Borneo. I want a male, as they generally run smaller. I prefer the coloration of Bloods, especially those with lighter colored faces (my ideal would be an Ivory, they look so gentle, but I just don't have the funds to purchase one, especially as I have no intentions of getting into breeding), but marble Borneos are also appealing. Is the size difference between male Bloods and Borneos significant in your experience? Would it be possible for a full-grown male blood to be too dangerous to be handled alone?

I know that personality depends on the animal, and I plan to work with my animal on a regular basis to keep him hand-tame, but have you had any problems with Bloods becoming unpredictable or more aggressive after reaching maturity, how do they compare to Borneos? Is anyone working to breed more docile bloods? (this isn't completely ridiculous, it's possible to breed for lowered adrenaline responses, resulting in calmer domesticated animals).

I currently keep a Nicuraguan BCI, who I treasure, and I've worked with ball pythons, garter snakes, milk snakes, and corn snakes, as well as a number of lizards, so I do have a bit of experience with a variety of husbandry requirements.

Sorry for all the questions, I'm trying to think everything through, so I don't end up with a snake that I can't handle. Thank you!

I work with Bloods myself, and I’ve had some that I’d trust over a ball python any day and others that just don’t like being handled. As you already know every animal is going to respond different. There are a few things that these species usually hate
1) Being restrained. These animals should never be grabbed behind the head because they are so powerful that they can very easily injure themselves trying to get away.
2) Having their tails messed with
3) Touching their Heads, some if worked with young will be ok with it but the majority will not.

As far as the size difference between a Blood and a Borneo, I haven’t worked with many Borneos myself but from what I’ve seen, the average adult size is not too much of a difference between the 2. If you have experience with working with med sized snakes I don’t see an adult male ever being too big to handle alone.

Bloods 9 times out of 10 will huff and puff and tense up before coming defensive so I wouldn’t say they are unpredictable, if you know your animal you’ll be able to read him/her fairly easy, but when they don’t want to be messed with I wouldn’t push it. If you buy a CBB animal, you have a pretty good chance at making it rather docile. Of course as you and I have already stated, every animal is different and some may never tame down, just like in any other species.

Most Bloods have darker heads, my male goes from a smoke grey head to almost pitch black at other times. Borneos have more of a lighter head and nice ones have some really nice blushing. Albino bloods are getting much more affordable so that could be another way you can look into.

Hopefully someone else will share their thoughts and experience so you can get a few before deciding.

Zack

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Zack Greens Reptiles

Thanks a bunch for your input! I've read references to bloods being a bit more likely to huff and chuff. I've read so many general guides and caresheets that I wanted to know a bit more of what people have actually experienced with their animals. Your post gives me hope that I'll be able to understand blood body language as easily as I can predict my Boa's.

I've seen such a mix in color variation in bloods, that's part of why I find them so fascinating. Looking through VPI's galleries always leaves me so dazzled. So many have those lovely charcoal heads, but others tend toward cream or red tops. It makes me excited to do a lecture on wild morphological variety and using this as a base for further domestic controlled breeding for desirable pet traits.

Thanks again!

About 12-13 years ago, I brought a borneo stp to a show at the Milwaukee Museums, Snake Days and someone commented how risky I was being (not a fellow Herp Society member, but a patron). Well now I bring many to educational shows, some for display only in Vision cages and others for public interaction. I keep both and what I noted is that younger males tend to be more high-strung and less tolerant of handling. The females have been more consistent, but there are exceptions of course. Anyone who interacts with my snakes knows they are fun snakes. You have to hold them differently since their heavy bodies make them unconfortable when held like a ball python (i.e. don't expect them to wrap around your neck or arm). You have to cradle them like a baby most of the time. Then again, maybe thats why mine are so laid back!

I could write a book on public display of snakes, but to keep it brief here are some take-aways:
- never leave a snake unattended with a visitor/patron.
- never allow people to touch the head or yank the tail.
- always encourage patrons to sanitize afterwards to promote hygiene. I always soak my snakes before and after to hydrate them.
- avoid feeding the snake one week prior to transport and handling to avoid stress and possible regurg/defication.
- bring lots of paper towels, they love to urinate in public for some reason! If they were dogs I would claim submissive-urination, but that is not likely
- give them breaks when they get unsettled. Most don't like lots of movement and bright light in the beginning.

At some point they will be like big slugs. Below is a photo of the bloods I had on display last year where I had lots thrown into a ring called the "Blood Pit" and they were fine. All I had to do was leave a rubbermaid tub for them to crawl into like a big hid box. The pit was about 8ft in diameter.

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www.richcrowleyreptiles.com
Support your local herp society
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Thank you Rich! You've confirmed much of what I'd expected. I always love to hear what other people do as far as animal outreach goes.

I've wanted to have a Blood to show off just how different snakes can be. People tend to be blind to the wild morphological differences between snake species, as they're all limbless. I thought showing people a strict ground-based snake would be a nice contrast to the multipurpose mostly-arboreal body plan that my boa displays. I definitely never expected to keep a blood on my shoulders. They really need their weight supported to avoid spinal damage. Also, showing people that snakes can be vulnerable, and that these ones must be cradled like infants might work nicely to give them a bit of anthropomorphizing sympathy.

I've done some docent work with a local zoo and as a professional educator out of a butterfly house, so I'm familiar with safety and sanitary procedures, the hand sanitizer and paper towels are always in my bag of tricks. I generally have a policy of only displaying one animal at a time rule so my animals get just a short display period. As far as letting people touch animals, I never let them get near my snakes' heads, and give children a 2-finger rule, letting them stroke the snake's back on its lowest 1/3 with their index and middle finger while I maintain full control over the animal's head. So far, this has worked very well to prevent grabbing.

That photo is just adorable! I find the blood python body shape to be just charming. It always reminds me of a Japanese mythical creature, the tsuchinoko, a short, fat-bodied snake with a triangular head, that when captured grants a wish or confers good luck. I'm absolutely decided that I will have to get one of these lovable 'slugs' at very least to be my own lap-snake.

Now I just need to figure out who I'm going to get my snake from and if I should wait for this season's hatchlings to be ready versus getting one that's a few months old.

Thank you!

I would agree with the rest of the commentary in this thread. I only have two bloods--an adult female normal and a sub-adult albino male. My male was wirey when I first got him, but he hadn't been handled much by the previous owner. It took a while to tame him down, but he's never tried to strike. At times he can still be a bit loosey goosey, but never defensive. I find that he actually responds well to firm handling. Not restraining him, but more like giving him the feeling that he's solid and secure. My female is a total pushover. She's mellow all of the time--at home, out on school display, out of her cage, wherever. As others have said, a big blood is definitely a cradle-style holding exercise. It just feels correct to do it that way, supporting their weight evenly.

Mine are both head tame, too. I can gently rub their heads without negative reaction, and they often push their heads through my hands while moving around. On the other hand, my ball and woma pythons won't tolerate head touching. Go figure.

I know this sounds ridiculous, but I think snakes can sense fear or apprehension in us. I go into every interaction with my snakes confidently, yet observant of their disposition. I also make it a habit to at least touch my snakes every day. I think all of this projects calmness and familiarity for them. They seem to relate to consistent, predictable behavior in us, just as we want the same from them.

All four of my pythons are a joy. Super pets for me.

Good luck with your blood!

Yes, they do sense stress or tension in their holders. It is something I stress with new keepers that they should be confident and assertive.
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www.richcrowleyreptiles.com
Support your local herp society
www.chicagoherp.org

I've often noticed that my boa will pick up on my moods. After a really rough day with a major medical scare, I was an absolute basket case. When the time came for his daily snuggle, he was the jumpiest I'd ever seen him. It was bizarre to see him defensive, as he is usually just an absolutely laid back and placid snake. I've heard so many snake owners cite similar experiences too! Just because something is neither mammalian, nor social, doesn't mean it won't pick up on the emotions of its handler.