Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I live in south Bexar County Texas. Seems like perfect Ornate Box Turtle habitat, and yet have not seen on this year (based on road kill).
I see plenty of Red-eared Sliders and Yellow-necked Mud Turtles DOR, but no Box Turtles.
There are tremendous numbers of Grasshoppers and Crickets here and the habitat is mixed hardwood/prairie/grassland. The soil is sandy loam.
So, where have all the Box Turtles gone? Fire ants are present, but not that serious an issue I'd think. Plenty of lizards and toads. They manage. Not too many Raccoons, either.
There are huge tracts of undeveloped land and great distances between roadways. It's not urban. It's agricultural land mostly.
The only thing I can think of must have been agricultural pesticide for the crops wiped them out. There are tons of Grasshoppers. Did the Box Turtles eat toxic Grasshoppers?
Anyone have any good answers to this one?
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I have personally experienced captive Ornate Box Turtle mortality from eating poisoned snails. My neighbor put out snail bait on her property and my turtles ate them when the tainted snails came over to my property.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

John, there has been an ongoing crash of amphibian and reptile populations going on since the late 1970's here in FL. Some species here like getulus Kingsnakes went from being unbelievably common to none in about 5 years. Paynes Prairie, a once famous Kingsnake habitat, not a single King as been seen in over 30 years. Why or how they dissapeared in such a short time is anybodies guess but they are gone!! This is NOT unique to the USA as I've just read a paper about how several snakes in Europe have dissapeared as well from seemingly excellent habitat for NO apparent reason...Soon we'll have an entire OCEAN devoid of life but we're directly linked to that one. I CAN'T BELIEVE THE PAUCITY OF NEW'S REPORTS THESE DAYS OF THE GREATEST ENVIROMENTAL DISASTER EVER WITNESSED. The Python's here got more press reports for longer periods of time...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

I've read somewhere a couple years back that mass extinction happens all the time. Before the dinosaurs they were mass extinctions that happened. The same thing happened to the dinosaurs and a lot of the large mammals after the last ice age. It's a natural occurrence that takes place every once in a while. The earth is slowly warming up on its own due volcanic activity under the Pacific Ocean releasing huge amount of methane gas into the atmosphere and the earth shifted its axis so that it is now orbiting closer to the sun. We humans are just speeding up warming process faster than it should. Eventually, a lot of the species are going to go extinct. There only hope is with captive breeding by reptiles enthusiasts like you.

I'm in the Dallas area and my take on the drop in box turtle spottings (used to find several a year - now maybe every other year) is the proliferation of fire ants - not attacking the adults, but burrowing down into freshly laid nests and feasting on the eggs. I have absolutely no proof of this theory, but the fire ant invasion has wreaked havoc with other animals...

Jay

Well, that's the common reasoning. There are Fire Ants here, but still good populations of Red Harvester Ants, so I'm not sure Fire Ants are the main issue. Other turtles, snakes, lizards, do fairly well here.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

You know John when I lived just south of you in Pearsall (early '80's) I never saw any box turtles. In fact the first box turtle I ever saw in texas was at a church camp in La Grange which was also where I saw the first live alligator snapper up close I ever saw.
The thing is I lived in the brush when I was in pearsall. I lived in the brush in alice as well, and I'm not saying that because I didn't see them they weren't there but considering that all I ever did was hunt,fish and look for reptiles it is kind of odd I never found one.

I am not so sure fire ants are to blame. I live in Dallas as well and hatch out box turtles every summer in my back yard where fire ants live. I have never witnessed fire ants in a box turtle or any reptile nest for that matter. I almost wish the fire ants were to blame as that would at the very least give you an honest starting point to begin dealing with the problem. I think there is something else going on. 15 years ago I used to be able to go out and find box turtles on almost every field trip. 25 years ago I would find them in the street while I was walking to school. This year I have bean out probably 25 times and not seen a single one. Last year I saw a single three toed the entire year. The year before that? Nothing. Much of it might be the fact that so many were harvested for the pet trade in the past years and also I want to blame urban sprawl and habitat destruction but I also have no proof of that. Every time I fly in a plane I cant help but look down at the earth and wonder to myself “how can wildlife support itself down there” You do not notice how cut up and manicured our environment is until you are up above it looking down. You can even go to Google earth maps and look at what I am referring to. You have to look very hard to finds even a few acres that have not been altered for pasture, crops, or human development.

my two cents
Allen Sheehan

I agree. Same here. Fire Ants do not bother my turtles' nests or hatchlings either. And my experience in the past is the same as yours.
In some areas, the pet trade harvest may have had an effect, but certainly not everywhere. Most of those animals were collected off roadways and a very high percentage probably were as good as dead anyway.
I am familiar with the Google satellite maps too.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

After a great deal of thought, this is what I came up with:

It is a combination of several factors.

1) Box Turtles are homers for sure, but that doesn't mean their home range isn't rather large. I'm going to say, that they are seasonally migrational, much the same as has been proven with several Rattlesnake species. With the proliferation of roadways and the increased frequency of vehicles traveling those roads, Box Turtle mortality has been high for several decades. Lets not forget the habitat destruction/modification driving them out and causing them to move and cross roadways, as well.

2) I'd have to say, in conjunction to the range limiting factors, that DDT or some other long term cumulative pesticide/toxin has resulted in multiple years of breeding failure.

3) If an ordinary Box Turtle has an ordinary lifespan of 40 years, with a reproductive life of 32 to 35 years and breedings are at a high probability of failure, the results would be negative population growth until extinction.

4) As population densities decline over time, adults are required to travel greater distances in order to find a mate, and in so doing the probability of vehicular homicide becomes more likely. Amounts to a population death spiral.

Has anyone studied pesticide/toxins in Box Turtle tissue?

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer