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Would a Pueblan Milksnake X Florida Kingsnake X Everglades ratsnake X California Kingsnake be a cool hybrid? Im going to try it.

it wouldnt look at all cool. the cal king gene will muddy up the look and make it a darker snake. same with the florida king.
if you want good looking hybrid, mix corns with milks. the king just ugly everything up.
dont mix milks because they are hard to distinguish between pure and mixed.dont mix kings for the same reason.
adam jeffery
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

Agreed, sounds like a muddy mix, hybrids IMO are the best when its between 2 or 3 at most species that compliment eachother. Mixing 5 types like that has been done and they usually look drab and lack a discernible pattern.

Agreed, sounds like a muddy mix, hybrids IMO are the best when its between 2 or 3 at most species that compliment eachother. Mixing 5 types like that has been done and they usually look drab and lack a discernible pattern.

Well, fort we don't know because it has never been done.

Second, even if the babies came out muddy that is expected of a new first gen cross. The cool stuff happens when you breed those neonates back to each other. Or does not everybody know this?

thrid why do the same old hybids over and over again? That just makes them on par with any coomon staight trait.

I thought part of the fun of hybrids is to see what other things we can produce.
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www.Bluerosy.com

At the risk of making the purists angry, I would like to respond to this hybrid discussion. In the appearance department, I agree with the others in the post. I dont think this hybrid will look good, but thats only because Ive seen others that dont. However, anyone who has made hybrids in the past knows that practically every one of them look different, so who knows.
The main point I would like to adress though is the dilution of the "pure" genes and not being able to distinguish "pure" from "hybrid". Now I am a veterinarian who has been breeding snakes for 20 years, so I am as scientifically minded as anyone else. My issue is this: there are VERY FEW people in this country who can provide you with documentation that their line of snakes is "pure". I have some snakes that I sell as "pure" thayeri and ruthveni. Do I know with 100% certainty that they are pure? Of course not, I bought them from someone else. Were they sure? Of course not, they bought them from someone else. And so forth and so on. Even those who can provide documentation all the way back to the original wild caught specimen don't know with 100% certainty. Interspecies breeding happens all the time in the wild, so how do you know that wild caught specimen doesnt contain "tainted" blood? The point is this hobby has been around for so long now with no genetic bloodline registry, noone knows for sure that the snakes they own are 100% "pure". If you have an approved snake reintroduction project that intends to release animals into the wild, then I think you should be put in jail if you purposely hybirdize your animals.
But since none of us do that, there are only 2 factors that should dictate whether or not you do it. # 1 you have an interest in it. # 2 can you sell them. You dont want to produce animals that noone wants and eventually have to be euthanized. Im sure there will be plenty of opposition to what Im saying, there always has been. But I welcome the debate.
If you dont get anything else from this, then get this. Be HONEST. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, represent your animals for what they are. If you know they are hybrids, represent them as such.

My issue is this: there are VERY FEW people in this country who can provide you with documentation that their line of snakes is "pure".

I think you don't undertand what pure means. Most everything we have in captivity is a hybrid. or a better term would be UNATURAL INTERGRADE.

Unless the snakes are collected on an isolated pop they would never meet in the wild. Road crsuising, different hillsides, mtns, outcrops all vary. In palces like Whitewater you have rosys on one side of the hill that are desert looking. On the other side a few hundred yars you have more coastal looking rosy boas.

Then look at Florida which does not even have the lifezones you get in calif and other states. Roadways, and all sorts of developemnt has seprated the kings where they look completly different from each other.

Second what would you call a natural intergrade found in the wild? Unpure?

Just some food for thought. Unless you are only interested in the greed money aspect of snake breeding there are no pure snakes unless they are locale specific and by that i mean where the snakes could actually meet in the wild. Not on 1000 ft sea level level and drive up the road where plants and habitat changes at 3000 ft sea level and find another king, ratsnake, pit ect.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Thanks for your input here bluerosy.
I think we are saying the same thing. My point was I think it is perfectly fine to hybridize our animals if we choose. My point was that you and I have the same definition of "pure" but most others do not. Just ask every breeder at the next expo you go to. Ask the breeder of the snow corn if his corns are "pure corns" Ask the thayeri and ruthveni breeder if their lines are "pure". Almost without exception, we are led to believe that everyone has "pure" lines of snakes. What you and I believe is that at this point in our hobby (or profession if that fits you), there is no such thing as a pure bloodline of snake. I have been in this hobby now for over 20 years so I was around before most of the morphs came about. How many documented cases of wild caught morphs or true captive mutations have you heard of. They obviously do happen, but not nearly as many times as we have morphs available in the hobby. Because they have been crossed, recrossed, and recrossed again. Intra and Interspecies crosses. The point I think we may disagree on is that I think there do exist some truly "pure bloodlines" of snakes in our hobby. Where we do agree however, is that it is impossible to document them. Thanks for the discussion, Ive been waiting for some intelligent discussion on this for a while
Shane

Perhaps all the original taxonomy was wrong to begin with and their all the same spicies just a population varrence in color and pattern. VM

>>Would a Pueblan Milksnake X Florida Kingsnake X Everglades ratsnake X California Kingsnake be a cool hybrid? Im going to try it.

I would say try it, sounds cool.
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Stinky