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Hey all, my normal female just drop a litter of babies that are 25% rufescens phase. The sire is a 50% rufescens (tigerish) and the dame is a normal. 12 babies, 2 slugs.
**Also, the male was only 40g when bred to the female.
Most of the babies look normal, but 3-4 individuals display some rufescens influence.
-Chris
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC
Thats really interesting Chris.
Do you know of other 25% breedings? Curious if the stripes go away with enough out-breeding.
Awesome Russians by the way. I am starting to really like the black ones!
Vinny
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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859
Vinny- I know Jeff Holloway has bred a tigerish rufescens to normals and he didn't get any stripes. A 50% rufescens phase stripe bred to a normal will produce 25% stripes though.....
Cheers,
-Chris
-----
Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC
Curiouser and curiouser.
Know of any 25% Ruffie stripes bred to a non-Ruffie dame?
It's interesting that tiger breedings can give you more tigers but not stripes.
Later,
Vinny
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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859
Vinny- I don't know of any 25% stripe breedings. I only have 50% and 75% stripes. All my 88% rufescens are solid or nearly so (a couple have partial stripes). I do have 1.1 75% rufescens that have partial stripes (first and last few inches of body).
-Chris
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC
Has anyone bred tiger to tiger?
-Chris
-----
Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC
Seems like this was asked this time last year and someone said it had been done....possibly, Scott? I had two tigers I was going to breed if it had not but I'm positive someone posted they had done it and the result was tigers, tigers, everywhere!
No stripes, which is where I think you are going with this?
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Mark Huntley
Sand Boa Morphs
Sand Boa's
2.1 Rufescens
6.6 Albinos
0.1 Hypo Albino
1.1 Dodoma
2.0 Nuclear Meltdown
0.1 Flame
10.22.14 Normal (orange)
7.16 Anery
5.4 Snow
2.2 Yellow Snow
0.1 Splash Albino
1.0 Splash Anery
1.0 Orange Stripe Het Anery
3.0 High Orange Stripe
1.0 Yellow Stripe
1.3 High Orange Tiger
2.3 High Orange
1.0 Snow Paradoxes
0.1 Albino Paradoxes
1.1 Javelin Sand Boas
2.1 Rough Scales
1.1 Indian Sunsets F3
Western Hognose
15.6 Normal Hogs
6.2 Green Phase
1.2 Red Phase
2.1 Boston Terriers
0.2 Sooners
1.3 Rhode Island Reds
0.3 Barred Rocks
0.2 Range Hens
0.1 Favorite Wives
1.1 On the fence in-laws
2.1 Rug Rats
CHECK OUT MY NEW KENYAN SAND BOA BLOG
http://sandboamorphs.blogspot.com/
WWW.SANDBOAMORPHS.COM
Doesn't that contradict the claim that the stripe is a co-dom trait?
I mean if a 'Stripe' regardless of its % is bred to a normal, wouldn't you expect 50% stripes?
I've got a litter coming soon from a 50% Rufescen Stripe male. I'm expecting 1/2 the litter to be stripes, since it is a co-dom trait....
yep, Vinny, here we go again!!!!
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Mark Huntley
Sand Boa Morphs
Sand Boa's
2.1 Rufescens
6.6 Albinos
0.1 Hypo Albino
1.1 Dodoma
2.0 Nuclear Meltdown
0.1 Flame
10.22.14 Normal (orange)
7.16 Anery
5.4 Snow
2.2 Yellow Snow
0.1 Splash Albino
1.0 Splash Anery
1.0 Orange Stripe Het Anery
3.0 High Orange Stripe
1.0 Yellow Stripe
1.3 High Orange Tiger
2.3 High Orange
1.0 Snow Paradoxes
0.1 Albino Paradoxes
1.1 Javelin Sand Boas
2.1 Rough Scales
1.1 Indian Sunsets F3
Western Hognose
15.6 Normal Hogs
6.2 Green Phase
1.2 Red Phase
2.1 Boston Terriers
0.2 Sooners
1.3 Rhode Island Reds
0.3 Barred Rocks
0.2 Range Hens
0.1 Favorite Wives
1.1 On the fence in-laws
2.1 Rug Rats
CHECK OUT MY NEW KENYAN SAND BOA BLOG
http://sandboamorphs.blogspot.com/
WWW.SANDBOAMORPHS.COM
Mark- I am not sure that the stripe is a true 'codom' trait. I do think a stripe bred to something else can produce stripes, but if it is a true codom trait then there would need to be a super form. Does a stripe to a stripe produce solid color individuals? The fact that there are partial stripes also makes me think there is more going on with the rufescens....
-Chris
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC
Sorry for my simplicity...it is all that I am capable of.
I'm expecting my 50% stripe litter to be 50% stripe and 50% tiger or normals. I'm positive Scott has bred a stripe to something....well we all know he has because of his anery stripes and double het stripes.
Scott...what's the percentages of a 50% stripe to something other than a rufescen or rufescen cross?
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Mark Huntley
Sand Boa Morphs
Sand Boa's
2.1 Rufescens
6.6 Albinos
0.1 Hypo Albino
1.1 Dodoma
2.0 Nuclear Meltdown
0.1 Flame
10.22.14 Normal (orange)
7.16 Anery
5.4 Snow
2.2 Yellow Snow
0.1 Splash Albino
1.0 Splash Anery
1.0 Orange Stripe Het Anery
3.0 High Orange Stripe
1.0 Yellow Stripe
1.3 High Orange Tiger
2.3 High Orange
1.0 Snow Paradoxes
0.1 Albino Paradoxes
1.1 Javelin Sand Boas
2.1 Rough Scales
1.1 Indian Sunsets F3
Western Hognose
15.6 Normal Hogs
6.2 Green Phase
1.2 Red Phase
2.1 Boston Terriers
0.2 Sooners
1.3 Rhode Island Reds
0.3 Barred Rocks
0.2 Range Hens
0.1 Favorite Wives
1.1 On the fence in-laws
2.1 Rug Rats
CHECK OUT MY NEW KENYAN SAND BOA BLOG
http://sandboamorphs.blogspot.com/
WWW.SANDBOAMORPHS.COM
I am not sure what Scott/Jeff used to produce the anery/albino/snow stripe rufescens, but I own stripes that are '75%' and '50%' so the anerys, etc... wouldn't have to be 25% rufescens or less.
I guess I am curious if the 'stripe' is still present when rufescens are outcrossed to 25%, 12.5% or 6.25%.
Cheers,
Chris
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC
i have produced a number of 25% rufescens stripes. it seems like the lower the percentage of rufescens the better the striping, as well as the striping not fading as much or at all as they mature. it also seems that the better color the female has helps to improve the striping. stripe to stripe has produced thinly striped, as well as solid animals. but these were animals with a high percentage of rufescens so results may be different with lower percentage stripe to stripe breeding. i dont know if it would be considered co-dom or what, but it seems to average out that a stripe bred to anything results in about half the litter being striped. although i have noticed that when i breed a stripe to morph my litters of hets are mostly if not all striped. tiger to tiger or normal seems to only produce tiger and normnals, so it would seem that one parent must be striped, no matter what the percentage of rufescens, for stripe offspring to be produced. thanks, scott erycine1@aol.com
np
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC
Right on, thats some good information there. And very interesting too.
If stripe were a dominant trait, then you would expect always to get 50% stripes from a stripeXnormal and 25% normal/75% stripe when stripeXstripe. I dont think this is what we see though (???)
If stripe were co-dom, then you would expect that a normalXstripe would also get you 50% stripes. But, breed whatever stripe is co-dom with to a stripe and you will get either 100% of the offspring with a third pattern thats different from both parents (if the parents were heterozygous for the co-dom trait), or, 25% normal, 25% stripe, 25% whatever the other pattern is, and 25% the third pattern.
If stripe were incomplete dominant, then you would expect normalXstripe to be 50% stripe, while a stripeXstripe would get you 25% normal, 25% "super", and 25% stripe. But, what that super looks like is not clear, maybe a typical ruffie look?
My educated but totally wild a$$ guess right now is that stripe and tiger are two co-dom traits since we can separate them and breed them true (at least so far). That means when breed together you should get stripes, normals, tigers, and something else, that may be the ruffie look. If tiger is also a variable trait then you can get really tiger looking animals and not-so-much tiger looking animals.
Of course, if breeding an outcrossed stripe (25% at least) to a normal gets you tigers then what I wrote above is wrong so I never wrote it and will deny it to my grave!
Vinny
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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859
I agree with whatever Vinny said 100%.
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Mark Huntley
Sand Boa Morphs
Sand Boa's
2.1 Rufescens
6.6 Albinos
0.1 Hypo Albino
1.1 Dodoma
2.0 Nuclear Meltdown
0.1 Flame
10.22.14 Normal (orange)
7.16 Anery
5.4 Snow
2.2 Yellow Snow
0.1 Splash Albino
1.0 Splash Anery
1.0 Orange Stripe Het Anery
3.0 High Orange Stripe
1.0 Yellow Stripe
1.3 High Orange Tiger
2.3 High Orange
1.0 Snow Paradoxes
0.1 Albino Paradoxes
1.1 Javelin Sand Boas
2.1 Rough Scales
1.1 Indian Sunsets F3
Western Hognose
15.6 Normal Hogs
6.2 Green Phase
1.2 Red Phase
2.1 Boston Terriers
0.2 Sooners
1.3 Rhode Island Reds
0.3 Barred Rocks
0.2 Range Hens
0.1 Favorite Wives
1.1 On the fence in-laws
2.1 Rug Rats
CHECK OUT MY NEW KENYAN SAND BOA BLOG
http://sandboamorphs.blogspot.com/
WWW.SANDBOAMORPHS.COM
LOL, yes perfect. Enough words can convince anyone when they get tired of arguing with you!!!!
Vinny
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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859
Enough 'Big' words...in confusing sequences!
-----
Mark Huntley
Sand Boa Morphs
Sand Boa's
2.1 Rufescens
6.6 Albinos
0.1 Hypo Albino
1.1 Dodoma
2.0 Nuclear Meltdown
0.1 Flame
10.22.14 Normal (orange)
7.16 Anery
5.4 Snow
2.2 Yellow Snow
0.1 Splash Albino
1.0 Splash Anery
1.0 Orange Stripe Het Anery
3.0 High Orange Stripe
1.0 Yellow Stripe
1.3 High Orange Tiger
2.3 High Orange
1.0 Snow Paradoxes
0.1 Albino Paradoxes
1.1 Javelin Sand Boas
2.1 Rough Scales
1.1 Indian Sunsets F3
Western Hognose
15.6 Normal Hogs
6.2 Green Phase
1.2 Red Phase
2.1 Boston Terriers
0.2 Sooners
1.3 Rhode Island Reds
0.3 Barred Rocks
0.2 Range Hens
0.1 Favorite Wives
1.1 On the fence in-laws
2.1 Rug Rats
CHECK OUT MY NEW KENYAN SAND BOA BLOG
http://sandboamorphs.blogspot.com/
WWW.SANDBOAMORPHS.COM
I am pretty sure that a low percentage stripe (
-----
Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC
I am pretty sure that a low percentage stripe (less than 50%) bred to a normal will produce stripes and tigerish individuals.
-Chris
-----
Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC
Damn! The best laid ideas go to hell sometimes.
Vinny
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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859
We will find out soon. I have a 75% partial stripe X anery litter that should pop out soon. I will try some weird crosses next year (stripe x tiger, 'solid' x tiger, etc...).
-Chris
-----
Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps
Wildlife Research & Consulting Services, LLC
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