Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a 9 year old KSB female that drops small litters almost every year now and this year she dropped 6 babies on 6/3/2010, and just last week I noticed her looking about to drop again. One night last week she passed 2 fully formed babies with some yolk sacs still intact that were dead upon passing them. This got me wondering.

Yesterday she started to pass another one, tail first. It was obvious though this one wasn't live due to the tail being dried out, almost like she had been trying to pass it for a while. Once it was passed, it was not live, but it was a fully formed baby that probably was live prior to being passed. This is only 3 months after her last litter, and there is obviously more in her. What's everyone's opinions on this? Is it common for two clutches that close together? I know it is not "healthy" for her, but she hasn't even been with a male since the first breeding.

This is her yesterday prior to passing the dead baby.

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Mike C
MClark202@insightbb.com

I have seen this a few times in my animals including one female this year. It is not that she had two litters. She just retained babies from the first. Some of the babies may have developted faster than others and forced their way out while others were retained. In my case this year, a female dropped out four very healthy babies and two that were not fully developed but still alive and still in their protective sac. This was the first time I had seen live babies like this and of course they did not make it, not that I did not try to keep them warm and moist. About a month later the mother dropped six more fully developed still born babies.
In the past when this has happened I have noticed that the females who retain babies or slugs will end up with large, hard lumps in her abdoman which can and will block the path of next years babies if large enough. I have removed these calcified babies/ova during the next seasons birth using the snip method and sent them in for some testing but I never could get a hold of the guy to see if they were indeed babies from the previous year. I assume they were as I and others have recorded these lumps in females that did not pass slugs/babies the previous year. I used a Q-tip and lube and massaged the slugs and two more still borns from my female this year.
Good luck with her.
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Steve Perry
North Idaho.

I could see if it was one month to say it might be the same litter, but 3 months later? Her first litter this year was 6 BIG babies, which was consistant with her 7 BIG babies last year at the same time.

So she drops 6 perfect big babies on June 3rd, and then about a week ago she passes two almost fully formed(dead) babies, with yok sacs intact, and then last night the fully formed stillborn baby.

I just find it hard to believe that they could possibly be the same clutch from 3 months apart. Wouldn't whatever was in her rot out over three months? I don't know for sure obviously, which is why I posted in the first place.
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Mike C
MClark202@insightbb.com

I also do not fully understand however to me, it is more unlikely to be from a seperate clutch. This would mean that the female would have ovulated twice.
I have seen, this year, two baby milk snakes not rot away after six weeks while sitting in the incubator. I had cut these eggs as they were the last to pip of their clutch and since they never finished slitting the egg I helped. Both babies were unresponsive in the egg so I cut further and pulled the heads out of the egg, both were dead. I set them back in the incubator with the lid on the container and then forgot about them being in there. When I did find them again the babies had not rotted away and had only dried out a little, still looked pretty fresh actually. Not that they would have looked like this after three months.
It would just be more likely to ME that the babies had not developed as quickly as the others. I have also seen corn snakes regularly pass unlaid eggs months after laying their second clutchs.
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Steve Perry
North Idaho.

I agree 100% with Steve. I too have had similar instances.
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Lee Frey
Serpents Plus (aka. Lee Herps)
sandboa@hotmail.com
www.SerpentsPlus.webs.com