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Hello everyone, I am a new tortoise keeper in search of the best diet for star tortoises, I currently have 2 Sri lankans and 4 Indians, they love mixed greens, and they devour mazuri when it is offered to them, my question is how much mazuri is to much,

Man, I think that is the great debate among many tort keepers LOL!!! I do use mazuri, but pretty sparingly. Maybe every third or fourth feeding at most, and its great to have around when the fresh greens run out and you dont have time to get to the store, etc. I have a friend of mine who feeds his sulcatas, redfoots, stars, and leopard tort mazuri on a fairly consistent basis and all his torts are doing well. Zoos use the stuff. I think moderation is the key and a varied diet and natural sun go a long way. Some keepers will tell you mazuri is primarily all they feed, and some will tell you not to feed at all. I look at it as a food alternative to add to the mix and variety. Its also great to help put weight on after winter, or with newly acquired animals.

I agree with feeding it more as a "supplement" as opposed to a staple.

I am friendly with some very well known tortoise breeders and one of the breeders uses it quite often. The tortoises get larger faster but they do get pyramiding due to what I believe is accelerated growth..
I feed it maybe once a week. They do love it though.

Personally, I have found that most of the prepared tortoise foods are unhealthy. Many vets and experts warn against any commercial diet. They typically contain soy, wheat and or rice. These are high in omega 6 fatty acids which has a negative effect on health. They also have an acidifying effect which causes a leaching of bone. They are high in phytate which binds calcium and other minerals. They also have an unfavorable ca/ph ratio and a low ca/mg ratio which has a negative impact on calcium metabolism. Grains alter Vit D metabolism. Diets high in grains can have a negative impact on bone growth in spite of adequate exposure to sunshine. I recently adopted two Red Foots who had been fed a pelleted diet, and I think it contributed to their pretty severe pyramiding. I have lots of plants and weeds growing indoors and outdoors which is a fast way to feed torts. Here is a link about commercial diets
Link

Hi everyone... I rarely post because my tortoise "cred" pales in comparison to most of the more frequent posters, but I wanted to offer a counter-point to this comment.

I think it is important to note that the question was specifically regarding Mazuri and not other pelletized foods. Mazuri's ingredients are easily available, and you can find that they are not deficient in several of the ways that Mandolynn has indicated like ca ratio, magnesium, or high protein (keep in mind that dry weight measurements will show higher percentage than what is in fresh greens, and this protein is also non-animal vegetative protein).

I believe the link is to an excerpt from A.C. Highfields "encyclopedia" or one of the books specifically regarding nutrition which are great resources and I've read multiple times. But my encyclopedia had a first edition in 1996, and some of the material on commercial diets may not reflect the current nutrtion of mazuri.

My tortoises love the stuff, I usually use it as a base to which I add other things. That way foods they would be picky about have a more familiar smell. I haven't noticed abnormally accelerated growth from my tortoies that rely heavily on mazuri... I think the high fiber content more closely reflects the fiber content of their wild diet, and because it is not as easily digestible, may result in slowed growth. The tortoises that won't take mazuri are the ones that seem to have accelerated growth and loose stools due to the lack of fiber in store greens (Many people who keep their tortoises inside over winter on store greens alone can sympathize with the runny poops)

As for the type of fatty acids, acidifying effects, and altered vitamin D metabolism, I can't say how Mazuir effects those things one way or another... I just don't know much about it. Of course, I agree in general with Mandolynn's stance that commercial diets are not preferred and variety is important, but Mazuri seems to be a nutritionally balanced commercial diet which provides the fiber that my tortoises aren't getting otherwise. Anyone agree or disagree?

I would agree that a natural diet is best but very few of us have the ability or luxury to provide a year round, natural diet, for our tortoises. A diet composed of grocery store vegetables is not a natural diet either and few of us even know the nutritional content of a natural diet for our tortoises and how to duplicate it in captivity.

We can’t lump all “Commercial Diets” together. There are some that were developed after very little research and they are poor diets for our tortoises. There are others that have a lot of research in their development and are excellent.

We need to be careful about comparing human needs to tortoise needs. I agree that high levels of omega 6 fatty acids are not healthy but some omega 6 fatty acids are essential for good health. I agree that high levels of protein are unhealthy (particularly if they are made up of the wrong amino acids) but protein is essential for good health. Very low levels of protein can result in soft shells and death. I agree that a tortoise’s blood should have a slightly alkaline pH, which can be acidified if fed too many grains but a diet balanced with greens can help offset this. I think it is unclear of the affects of phytates in the diet, which may pass through the tortoise’s gastrointestinal tract with little affect on the tortoise.

If I had year round grazing available, that is what I would provide. I don’t have that luxury so I feed over 2,000 pounds of Mazuri a year. I have hatched out tortoises from parents fed Mazuri, raised those hatchings to adults, and have had strong, next generation babies produced by those grown up hatchings.

I raise hundreds of completely smooth and natural looking tortoises, which are fed predominately Mazuri tortoise diet. I have regular customers who buy my 4-inch captive raised tortoises because they are so perfect. Diet is very important but correct husbandry techniques are critical for perfectly formed shells.

Mazuri recommends that their diet be supplemented with fresh fruits and vegetables and the tortoises also be fed good quality grass hay. It is my opinion and observation that Mazuri is fine to feed if supplemented as they recommend. I don’t use any vitamins or mineral supplements with the Mazuri.

Good luck

Just my 2 cents... In Connecticut we also do not have the luxury of being able to feed a natural diet year round. I use Mazuri in what I would call a supplemental manner, maybe 1-2 times per week. I dont think you can lump Mazuri in with the crap they sell in the pet stores like Pretty Pets and whatnot. It's simply not the same thing. You can go look at the ingredients online and many "good" breeders rely on this stuff. I have been using it for probably 10 years with good results (in addition to a grocery story greens diet 8-9 months of the year).

Carole
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www.reptilecare.com

I didn't even have to open the link to see where this reference came from...

>>Personally, I have found that most of the prepared tortoise foods are unhealthy. Many vets and experts warn against any
commercial diet. They typically contain soy, wheat and or rice. These are high in omega 6 fatty acids which has a negative effect on health. They also have an acidifying effect which causes a leaching of bone. They are high in phytate which binds calcium and other minerals. They also have an unfavorable ca/ph ratio and a low ca/mg ratio which has a negative impact on calcium metabolism. Grains alter Vit D metabolism. Diets high in grains can have a negative impact on bone growth in spite of adequate exposure to sunshine. I recently adopted two Red Foots who had been fed a pelleted diet, and I think it contributed to their pretty severe pyramiding. I have lots of plants and weeds growing indoors and outdoors which is a fast way to feed torts. Here is a link about commercial diets
>>Link
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I've been a strong advocate of using Mazuri for roughly 12 years now.

These are my Stars which were raised on Mazuri since 2 inches scl. Mazuri has been a staple for the last 5 years. The Stars are about 8 years old and are just starting to breed this year. The female (large one) is about 6 inches scl.


As to accelerated growth or 'too much' protein being the cause of pyramiding... total nonsense.

This is Al and cousin (Al's the big tortoise). Al is 12 years old and the cousin is about 5 years old.

Bottom line... I think this stuff is one of the best developments in tortoise husbandry in the history of the hobby so far.

>>Hello everyone, I am a new tortoise keeper in search of the best diet for star tortoises, I currently have 2 Sri lankans and 4 Indians, they love mixed greens, and they devour mazuri when it is offered to them, my question is how much mazuri is to much,
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

so those are your aldebras? they are beautiful! what are their personalities like? and assuming you're still down here in jaw-juh, how do you house them in the winter -- must be one hell of a shed or something!

Ever since I lived here I box them up and place them in a cool room in the coldest part of winter.

I will be building a shed in the next month or so.

They have heat mats right now but the largest is out growing them.

>>so those are your aldebras? they are beautiful! what are their personalities like? and assuming you're still down here in jaw-juh, how do you house them in the winter -- must be one hell of a shed or something!
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

"box them up" -- do you mean that they hibernate? i didn't know that the giant breeds did that!

Aldabras are not known to hibernate. In all actuality... no tortoise truely hibernates. The environment cools down to where the metabolism slows down. The lower the temperature the slower the metabolism. I learned from observing my larger tortoises such as the sulcata and leopards that this can occur with them. I also learned from those folks who keep Sulcatas in the north that this occurs with them also.

I come to find out that this also works with Aldabras but I do not recommend or suggest that anyone else try this at home. It can be very risky.

>>"box them up" -- do you mean that they hibernate? i didn't know that the giant breeds did that!
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Just another opinion and perspective. We have a large colony of aldabra tortoises in Florida. Our tortoises are kept in a large field with natural grasses and weeds. We feed small amounts of Mazuri tortoise chow to our adult female breeders only during egg laying season. This has historically worked good for us and our program. All of the eggs are in perfect condition and hatchlings have been flawless. We have several juveniles that we have held back over the years and have never fed them any commercial chow of any sort, infact they roam their own small area and feed from the natural grass and weeds only. We do give them cactus pads some times. We have no pyramiding or unhealthy growth conditions at all. I also believe that our feeding standards are partially responsible for our consistant fertility within our breeding colony, at least with this species. Best to all, Greg at ALDABRAMANGREG@HTOMAIL.COM.