Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Things are dead in here so I thought I'd post a pic of this little gem. Been in my care for a year since it was a hatchling...even now a full grown Uta is a big meal! Whats interesting is that it takes about 5 minutes for a lizard to succomb to its venom while 2 juvenile Mangrove Snakes that still hold out for lizards (sometimes scented hoppers)take over 20 to immobilize a live lizard.

Bill

Seems to be Oxybelis aeneus, right?

The venom of Boiga dendrophila shows different reactions on prey items, so it might be the conclusion.
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www.rear-fanged.com

Right you are! I've never fed any of my adult Boiga live prey items so I can't compare venom toxicity to rodents/chicks compared to the two holdouts that only take lizards.

Bill

Bioga's venom is built for birds, whereas your Oxybelis is specific to small lizards

Indeed. Hate to scar up a nice beauty like a mangrove solely over a live prey item.
You lizard holdouts are being stubborn, they'll come around. I have 4 from that last clutch still being finicky but they always seem to come around.

I have gotten them to take scented hoppers twice but not reliably. I've also used chick down pasted on hoppers' heads w/others which worked well...just not w/these two. One is a very nice b/w male I want to eventually pair up w/the female pictured.

My Cynodon initially refused anything that wasn't covered in feathers..but as of this week both are now taking thawed adult mice w/no attractants used! So I guess I'm in for some work when my 2 clutches of Melanota hatch huh? Good thing I can noose lizards almost year 'round where I live if needed.

Bill

Indeed, some are little butt-heads to get going. Little snakes work also for some. I still have a couple of hold-outs from the last clutch. These are a little weaker than the last few. I honestly was surprised when this clutch hatched....long story.
Those are some nice looking snakes you got. I have always had a passion for this species and it is one of a few that I actively breed at home.
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Doug Hotle

I as well. I have 10 eggs incubating from 2 different females..one from a Dendro Dendro that is actually more of a lavendar/yellow than black/yellow so it will be interesting to see if any of the babies look like her. I also have Melanota and Gemmicinta..the latter being a year away. These Gemmicinta (2.2) are by far the meanest and most easily irritated of all three ssp. I have.

The Cynodons are like Corn Snakes in comparison! I've had some courting going on so that will be an exciting development if they give me eggs soon!

Bill

Good luck. It's good to see someone else out there breeding these. There are not many of us
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Doug Hotle

If you don't mind sharing, would you guys elaborate on your boiga breeding experiences? From triggering breeding, to incubation temps and days till hatching.

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Ryan
www.wickedreptiles.com

W/Mangroves make sure the male is MUCH larger than the female. I lost a male to cannibalism during my first breeding trials. Apart from breeding I keep almost all separate..some feed poorly in the presence of others..may be the hangover effect of possible cannibalism.

Studies on the Brown Snake on Guam have shown that the females don't begin to cycle until the presence of a male is detected so I operate on that philosophy.

I introduce females to the male's cage. If a female is receptive the reaction from the male is almost immediate..or w/in 30 minutes. He will chase and she will run! Copulation is quite lengthy w/hook-ups as long as an hour sometimes.

No trigger mechanisms are used ..humidity, day lenth, brumation, etc. All my females have double clutched and I cycle them through the males twice a year. As always snakes will fool us. I've had a 7' male Melanota in w/a 5.5' female for 60 days and was just about to separate them thinking she's got to be gravid and came into the room and heard a frantic rustling from their cage...he was courting her in a big way!

The easiest way to tell if a female is gravid is if she goes off feed! I offer food after what I consider to be the prelay shed and if they refuse I know to be on the lookout. All mine are ravenous feeders of anything off of tongs so its easy to tell when they're off feed.

I usually have a suspended lay box as well as one on the floor of each cage w/moist sphagnum moss inside. Infertile eggs are laid 2-3 days before the "good" eggs..at least thats what happened w/my last 2 clutches. Incubation is app. 100 days at 82F-84F though these last 2 clutches have been incubated w/the natural ambient shifts of my snake room..83F for a high during the day down to 79F at night. They seem to be cruising along just fine like this too..it may extend the incubation a bit so we'll see. One thing thats interesting is the amount of swelling on the female during copulation..see attached pic.

Hope this helps,

Bill

Ditto on the size differences.
I typically beging to spray mine down a few times a day for about a week to two weeks before putting them together. I only keep them together for the night, then seperate again. I'll pair them up again in a few days.
I place a nesting box in with the snake post lay. They will lay them in the box. Check this every morning first thing. Know that on occasion the female will double clutch. They may lay again after about 90 days.
The eggs, I incubate at 84DF for 100-105 days.

Hope this helps
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Doug Hotle

Doug,

Do your females resume feeding w/the normal gusto between layings when they've double clutched?

Bill

Yes. They seem to pick up pretty well. The first time surprised me and i was lucky to have caught it.
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Doug Hotle

No doubt! You have me all paranoid as I travel most every week on biz! Both clutches are at 50 days so I'll start paying a bit more attention to the females!

Ever work w/Boiga Cynodon? I have 1.1 and they are worlds apart temperment-wise from Mangroves. Very shy and retiring and have yet to even strike at me..though I rarely ever handle any of my collection, rear-fanged or otherwise. I have witnessed some courtship though I think they may be a bit young..only 5' or so..but we've all been suprised at how "small" imported snakes can be that come in gravid..

If my Gemmicinta get startled when out at night I literally have to cover their cages w/pillow cages if I plan to move about or they bash themselves silly on the front of the cage trying to get to me!

Bill

Thanks for the info.
This was my first year breeding boiga. I dropped their temps a little bit and misted heavily for about a month and a half. That seemed to work for my gemmicincta and cyanea. Nothing from my melanota until she surprised me with a clutch much later then the gemmicincta and cyanea. I incubated at 84 degrees and the cyanea aggs hatched after 91 days. My gemmicincta eggs are actually pipping right now at about day 103.
I'm wondering if in the wild they incubate at higher temps. With the gemmicincta and the cyanea I had several lay boxes available each with slightly different temps. The gemm. laid her eggs in the box that was about 87. The cyanea laid in the box that was about 89. Didn't get to try that with the melanota, only had time to set up one box for her. I plan to set it up like that again next time but change the temps around. To see if they pick the same box position or a box with the same temp.
I've noticed the swelling you mentioned with the cyanea as well.

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Ryan
www.wickedreptiles.com

Awesome pic! What's very odd is that the swelling is above the vent! Any idea what is causing this?

Bill

It could be simply a urate ball passing during contractions.
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Doug Hotle

I've bred 4 different pairs and all have shown the same thing during copulation so there is some sort of '"constant" working here wouldn't you think?

Bill