Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,

I read that bed a beast is very good for holding humidity. I currently am using potting soil/sand with a little moss for humid area. Which is better in your opinions?

Thanks, Linda

I think bed-a-beast is less impaction risk than soil and sand...but bed-a-beast is expensive. The reason I mix sand with the soil is to prevent the soil from clumping together when it dries out.

I'm not really sure, but I watered the soil/sand mixture one time and I haven't have to watered yet. Sorry about that!

I find if i keep watering them, my frog tank, also, I get fungus problem. I just let the substrate dry out a bit and not over water it. As long as they have a source of water and not bone dry, I think they should be alright. Besides, I think in the wild they also seek dry area not just the wet the one, or you can just soak them yourself. Also, the good turtle food helps their skin a lot, so I include as part of the diet.

I think the turtle food has some kind of fish oil in it, and it helps keep the skin in good condition.

Thanks! I only use the sand/soil in the hide area otherwise I use cypress mulch. I was just curious if the bed a beast was maybe a cleaner option. There are so many good websites out there that have very good recommendations so just want to make sure I know all of my options. Since I had to bring her indoors and my heat is on I want to make sure I keep the humidity up in the hide.

The bed-a-beast is made from coconut husk, so it's probably cleaner. That's what I used for the small baby when I first got him last year, but for the indoor adult, that someone found wondering around, I use the potting soil/sand mixture because I can make a larger batch, so her quarters has substrate deep enough for her to bury herself completely in it. Plus, the more substrate I use the slower it dries out and less I have to water. That's I use the sand/soil mixture because they are so cheap....

did you get the one with manure by any chance? A lot of them have that, fertilizers, and perlite. I just get cheapest one with nothing else added. I think Home Depot and Orchard have better selection than Low's.... you have to be careful and read the ingredients....

No, I got just plain topsoil with nothing added.

I use peatmoss. Inexpensive, holds moisture well.

At least partially covering their indoor habitat is the best way to help retain humidity.

I like good air flow because of the fungus problems I have in my frog and the baby's old quarters.

Thanks again. I am going to purchase some plexiglass to cover
the top of the turtle tub (except for the lighting fixtures). Hopefully this will hold both heat and humidity well. I am sure I'll have to make adjustments as I go.

Can't you just use a piece of wooden board to cover part of the tub or turtle pen? I like to use the largest Rubbermaid container and cover the top with wood if I have to try to retain the heat. With the Rubbermaid I can drag outside on a warm day so they can get some sunlight.... The heat lamp(s) clamp onto the side on the side where the opening is for ventilation....

You know when you're a room that has no windows and door(s) open and you feel kindda stuffy and some people get allergy. Well, if you cover all the top, this will concentrate the mold spores and dust particles, and when your turtle breaths it into the lungs, the immune system will go crazy trying to rid the lungs of foreign particles and objects.... That's why a good cage has good ventilation.

Wood is absorbent and can draw moisture out of the air. Not an ideal choice.

A loose cover (versus a sealed or fitted lid) can go a long way towards keeping humidity in.

I feel that if they need to be moist, they can burrow into the substrate.... I don't think it needs to be extremely humid, just the substrate or dirt they can burrow is moist and that they have access to clean water is enough. [shrug]

If their skin looks as if it's drying out even if they substrate is moist, I feel, it probably means the diet is lacking in some things. This means you probably should add some fruits and orange and yellow color veggies, like winter squash and carrots, to their diet. The beta-carotene in fruits and veggies really helps with the skin. And, also, adding some good turtle food, like Reptomin and Mazuri turtle pellets, to diet helps keep the skin moist and healthy IMO. My turtle skin is bright and shiny when I add some veggies, fruits, and the turtle food as part of their diet. Compared to what she was before, the rescue three-toed I got earlier a couple months, her skin looks very shiny and she has bright clear eyes.... When I first got her, her skin was dry and grayish looking, and she has this what looked like huge dry patch of skin on top of her head, but now her skin looks shiny and vibrant. That's why I think veggies and fruits is so important. And all this, I achieved without using a cover as I feel the wet dirt keeps it humid enough and she soaks everyday in a clean water dish.

Considering that box turtles are native to areas that routinely have humidity levels *averaging* from 60%-85%, and that air is more humid near soil surface (where turtles live), experts feel that humidity is very important.

Indoor air, especially during the winter heating season, can be extremely dry...far too dry for box turtles.

While having water to soak in and feeding foods with a high moisture content can be helpful, feeding a varied diet to these opportunistic omnivores and recreating as closely as possible the conditions to which they are adapted is best.

If you have had fungus problems in the past, then you may have some husbandry issues that need to be addressed.

As far as your comments about mold and fungal spores being aspirated and causing health problems: can you please share with us any documentation you have for this? Did a veterinarian diagnose this problem? Is there scientific literature describing this health hazard?

Thanks

I have no documentation on this, but anyone that keeps crickets knows that an opened top or a lid with good, large, ventalation will keep the crickets alive much, much longer. When you limited the air flow, the mold and fungus spores builds up which will eventually kill the crickets. Since they are so tiny, it doesn't take much to kill them. This is why you stuffy sitting in a room with no window and good ventilation--plus, the CO2. I heard something like from some a human doctor years back.

I don't have fungus problems on the turtles.... Only fungus that were growing on the dirt and the coconut fiber. This is what happened in my frog's tank containing Eco-earth as substrate. I had to throw it out and replace it. The frog people told me I was keeping the coconut fiber to wet and that letting it dry out a bit is OK in order to prevent fungus break out. And considering a skinless frog almost looses as much water as a frog with skin intact, box turtles should do fine with the substrate drying out occasionally.

I don't mean moist food.... What I'm saying is including veggies (which should also include orange and yellow color veggies), and fruits helps them have healthy, soft, shiny, and vibrant skin because veggies and fruits, particularly the orange and yellow color ones, contain a lot of beta-carotene and vitamin A.

Fruits and vegetables have high moisture content. For example, your average medium-sized carrot is about 95% water.

I swear it's the vitamin A that keep the skin moist and healthy looking; and vitamin C that is beneficial in preventing inflammation of the tissues. Hmmmm... I'm certain of it....

Much more likely the direct result of just the water content of the foods. Helps explain why wild box turtles have great looking skin in early spring well before any of the sources of beta carotene or vit. C are even available for them to eat.

Be very, very careful about what you 'prescribe' on the internet, especially if you are only referencing one or two sources without having a complete understanding of the big picture.

This was written by a qualified veterinarian:

http://www.chelonia.org/articles/hypervitaminosisA.htm

Thank you for the link! I didn't know overdose of vitamin A was so common! I think getting it naturally from food like veggies is the best way.... Nutritionists will tell you to eat a balanced diet and varieties so you get all the nutrients you need. This means feeding box turtles veggies and fruits as part of a varied diet. I think people get freaked out thinking the turtle is going to suffer from vitamin A deficiency, so they start supplementing the turtle with vitamin A. If you eat enough varieties, you get all the nutrients you need and it's hard to get overdose since all the vitamins and minerals work together regulating the amount the body needs.

I think the author in that article is talking about people supplementing the turtles with vitamin A supplement--not multivitamins. Although, that can also be a problem if given too much.

My turtle is now on a good diet. If you recall when I first got her she would only eat corn and not very often. For instance this morning she had chopped turnip greens, butternut squash, reptomin sticks and small pieces of orange (she absolutely adores oranges). I mix it up at each feeding with different fruits and veggies. As far as mold, in reptile enclosures they always stress good ventilation especially in humid habitats so this is a good point, however, box turtles seem to seek out these areas in the wild. They like the dark, warm and humid areas where mold can grow readily. I agree that box turtles should have air that is humid as well as the soil. In everything I have read it states that without it they can develop eye and respiratory problems. I also agree with what Steph said that wood zaps the humidity out of the air. I would never use wood for reptiles that require higher humidity. My turtle tub is 2' wide by 6' long so I would think that covering it would not be a huge issue. Most of the enclosure is dry anyway. I will keep a close eye on humidity levels and if need be I could maybe add a small computer fan.

Thanks for all of your comments and guidance.
Linda

You welcome!

I'm sorry if I sound a bit blunt...if I do! [chuckle] Sometimes it's hard to get your point across in a good and easy to read English and type at the same time, so it sounds weird sometime! [chuckle]

did you know parsnip is possibly the most nutritious veggie in the world? Asparagus, too!

Yes, I do recall that. I do give my reptiles parsnip on a regular basis. I need to try more asparagus now that you told me that